Restoration of pre-COVID suburban train services

[miklcct]

Since the pandemic, many suburban train services have been cut to the extent that they are no longer useful at all (I consider useful as a synonym as turn-up-and-go - i.e. with an average waiting time of 7.5 minutes of less according to the TfL definition, so the train services need to have at least 4 tph (trains per hour) departing 15 minutes apart).

It has been years since the pandemic and travel has well been recovered where a full train service is running. The Overground usage, in term of passenger km, is 98% in 2023-2024 compared to 2019-2020, while Southeastern, which still have a massive cut compared to before, is only at 75% across the same period.

When will the remaining train services be restored (or never, that I will be put off to moving to the south forever)? In particular, I am looking for the following services:

• Northern City Line: 6 tph pre-COVID, 4 tph now (missing 2 Hertford services) (although I wish this service to get to 8 tph in the core, with 4 Welwyn, 2 Stevenage via Hertford and 2 Hertford)
• Windsor line: 8 tph Waterloo - Barnes pre-COVID (4 via Richmond, 4 via Hounslow), 4 tph (not even) now (missing the Hounslow loop)
• SWR Mole Valley: 4 tph pre-COVID (2 Dorking, 2 Guildford), 2 tph now (1 Dorking, 1 Guildford)
• Southern Mole Valley: 4 tph pre-COVID, 2 tph now (missing the Epsom terminator)
• Victoria - Norbury - Sutton: 4 tph pre-COVID, 2 tph now (missing the Sutton terminator)
• London Bridge - Sydenham: 4 tph pre-COVID, 2 tph now (missing the stopping service to East Croydon, and Coulsdon Town?)
• Victoria - Orpington: 4 tph pre-COVID, 2 tph now (the Mon-Fri services will be restored in Dec 2024, but not the weekend)
• Catford Loop: 4 tph pre-COVID, 2 tph now (missing the off-peak Kentish Town - Orpington service)

In all the above examples, a 2 tph service instead of 4 tph is not useful for local travel, as the average waiting time is so long that it frequently exceeds the train journey duration. When will all the above services being restored to their former glory?

 

[30907]

Since the pandemic, many suburban train services have been cut to the extent that they are no longer useful at all (I consider useful as a synonym as turn-up-and-go - i.e. with an average waiting time of 7.5 minutes of less according to the TfL definition, so the train services need to have at least 4 tph (trains per hour) departing 15 minutes apart).

It has been years since the pandemic and travel has well been recovered where a full train service is running.

Or "where travel has well recovered a full service is running" - which way round is it? My impression - and it is only that - is that as numbers recover services tend to be increased.

The Overground usage, in term of passenger km, is 98% in 2023-2024 compared to 2019-2020, while Southeastern, which still have a massive cut compared to before, is only at 75% across the same period.

Is that figure specifically for the suburban area (for comparison with LO) or for the whole TOC?

In all the above examples, a 2 tph service instead of 4 tph is not useful for local travel, as the average waiting time is so long that it frequently exceeds the train journey duration. When will all the above services being restored to their former glory?

Some of us managed to use half-hourly offpeak train services without too much difficulty (and indeed, away from London, still do!

 

[Bletchleyite]

In all the above examples, a 2 tph service instead of 4 tph is not useful for local travel, as the average waiting time is so long that it frequently exceeds the train journey duration.

People don't turn up and go for a 2tph service, they look at the timetable and turn up in time for a journey that suits their purposes.

 

[PGAT]

4tph is allegedly being restored up to Gordon Hill from December 2025, 4tph via Norbury will probably be restored after that turnback siding at Belmont is built and 4tph London Bridge via Sydenham will be restored (rush hour only) from the December timetable change

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The Huddersfield to Wakefield/Castleford was (somewhat surprisingly) not an immediate COVID casualty, but did get axed later on while restrictions were still in place. It's now returned in some form as an extension of the TPE Manchester to Huddersfield stoppers, even with the extension to York that many on here have advocated for for years, but only in the peaks. I believe the plan is still for this to become an all-day service, subject to the various blockades for the route upgrade project.

 

[miklcct]

Or "where travel has well recovered a full service is running" - which way round is it? My impression - and it is only that - is that as numbers recover services tend to be increased.

TfL did not reduce the services in the same way the DfT-contracted ToC did at all.

The Lea Valley line is still having a worse service than pre-pandemic but it is only the peak extras missing (2 tph skip-stop service through Seven Sisters).

Is that figure specifically for the suburban area (for comparison with LO) or for the whole TOC?

Unfortunately a figure for only the suburban area isn't available. The other wholly suburban TOCs are Merseyrail and Elizabeth line. Southeastern has the largest suburban proportion of all London TOCs apart from TfL concessions.

Some of us managed to use half-hourly offpeak train services without too much difficulty (and indeed, away from London, still do!

TfL has long proven that such train services are not useful, and result in unnecessary bus demands to tube stations such as North Greenwich, Brixton, Morden, etc. Restoring such services is a low cost way to improve bus services in outer London by repurposing buses to run on orbital routes where there are no overlapping rail services.

The Sutton loop, although not exactly a service which has been cut, it is a prime example of a service which does not utilise its full potential and results in unnecessary demand on the crowded Northern line.

People don't turn up and go for a 2tph service, they look at the timetable and turn up in time for a journey that suits their purposes.

TfL does not agree with you.