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Returning from Paddington to Bristol - can I use a Parkway ticket at Temple Meads and vice versa

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WoodHillsian

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The last train from Paddington to Parkway is at 22-49, but there is a later one to Temple meads at 23-32. Last week I had a Super Off Peak Return from Temple Meads to Paddington, and had planned to catch the 23-32, but finished in London ealier than expected, so caught the 22-49. I asked the guard if is was OK to get off at Parkway, and she said it was no problem, but was she being helpful, or was I breaking the rules? If I have a return to one of the stations, but can get a lift home from the other, can I chop and change? Or is there such a thing as a Bristol Stations to London ticket?
 
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jfollows

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Bristol TM to London is valid via a number of routes, including via Parkway, on a ticket like the one you held, and breaking your journey is allowed. Just don’t apply the same rules to an advance ticket, which is only valid on specific trains to/from specific places.

Later I can post details of all the valid routes for a Bristol TM to London ticket if nobody else has already done it.
 

Benjwri

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Later I can post details of all the valid routes for a Bristol TM to London ticket if nobody else has already done it.
I’ll save you the time:
- London to Westbury via both Reading on GWR and via Basingstoke and Salisbury, and then up via Bath
- The ‘Normal’ way out on GWR via Swindon, then via Bristol Parkway or Bath Spa.
-Either of the two GWR routes, but travelling to Reading via SWR.
 

FastItinerary

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The below's to the best of my knowledge having lurked for a while and read various documents - other members can hopefully correct me if needed!

With regards to flexible tickets which permit Break of Journey, which a Any Permitted Super Off-Peak Return does in this case, you can start, break or end your journey early at any station on route. Parkway's on route for GWR services meaning you'd be fine to get off at Bristol Parkway on a Bristol Temple Meads ticket that allows you to break your journey.

I believe you'd technically be over travelling your ticket if you go to Temple Meads on a Parkway ticket, but the price for a Any Permitted Super Off Peak Return from London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads (or the reverse) is the same price as one to/from Bristol Parkway, and so I'm unsure what would realistically occur with a nil difference in fare (and would be interested to know!)

If you want to be safe, book your super-off-peak returns between Paddington and Temple Meads, then you should always have the option to choose between Temple Meads and Parkway.
 

The exile

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The below's to the best of my knowledge having lurked for a while and read various documents - other members can hopefully correct me if needed!

With regards to flexible tickets which permit Break of Journey, which a Any Permitted Super Off-Peak Return does in this case, you can start, break or end your journey early at any station on route. Parkway's on route for GWR services meaning you'd be fine to get off at Bristol Parkway on a Bristol Temple Meads ticket that allows you to break your journey.

I believe you'd technically be over travelling your ticket if you go to Temple Meads on a Parkway ticket, but the price for a Any Permitted Super Off Peak Return from London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads (or the reverse) is the same price as one to/from Bristol Parkway, and so I'm unsure what would realistically occur with a nil difference in fare (and would be interested to know!)
Given the fact that there is at least one Paddington to Bristol Parkway service which is routed via Temple Meads it surely must be an acceptable route. Or does that logic only apply on the through service itself?
 

FastItinerary

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Given the fact that there is at least one Paddington to Bristol Parkway service which is routed via Temple Meads it surely must be an acceptable route. Or does that logic only apply on the through service itself?
Will correct my post actually, thanks - just tried and found valid itinerary for that route now you've mentioned it, had initially figured that the difference in distance between the stations was more than 3 miles and hence doubling back would be a problem, but I guess since they're within the same routing group it works out okay?
 

Watershed

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Given the fact that there is at least one Paddington to Bristol Parkway service which is routed via Temple Meads it surely must be an acceptable route. Or does that logic only apply on the through service itself?
You can travel from Paddington to Bristol Parkway via Temple Meads so long as you do so via Bath. What you can't do is to use the return portion of a Bristol Parkway to Paddington Super Off-Peak Return to travel Paddington - (Chipping Sodbury) - Parkway - TM. The ticket would have expired when the train arrived at Parkway.

Because the fare is the same, a pragmatic approach by GWR would involve not charging anything extra (and it's highly unlikely there'd be a ticket check during the couple of mins between Parkway & TM, or barriers in operation at TM in the small hours of the morning). But technically speaking you'd be committing an offence under the archaic section 103 of the Railway Consolidation Clauses Act 1845:
103 Penalty on passengers practising frauds on the company.
If any person knowingly and wilfully refuse or neglect, on arriving at the point to which he has paid his fare, to quit such carriage, every such person shall for every such offence forfeit a sum not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale.

You would alternatively be liable to pay a Penalty Fare or for a new ticket from Parkway to TM.

It's not a theoretical discussion either; we've seen people penalised for travelling to Cardiff Queen Street on a ticket to Cardiff Central, even though the fares were the same. So it's a good idea to buy your ticket to the furthest station you might want to travel to, even if the price is the same.

Will correct my post actually, thanks - just tried and found valid itinerary for that route now you've mentioned it, had initially figured that the difference in distance between the stations was more than 3 miles and hence doubling back would be a problem, but I guess since they're within the same routing group it works out okay?
The Routeing Guide provision that allows doubling back within a Routeing Point Group (RPG) is only for interchange purposes, and only intermediately during a journey (i.e. not at a RPG that the origin or destination station belongs to). Thus this provision wouldn't cover the double back in this scenario.

It's also ambiguous whether the 3 mile rule would allow you to travel beyond your ticket's destination on a train that stops there - there could be an argument that s103 above would be engaged (in my view, this is different to doubling back where the ticket is specifically routed so as to include/require such a double-back, e.g. Watford-Manchester via London).
 

The exile

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You can travel from Paddington to Bristol Parkway via Temple Meads so long as you do so via Bath. What you can't do is to use the return portion of a Bristol Parkway to Paddington Super Off-Peak Return to travel Paddington-Parkway-TM. The ticket would have expired when the train arrived at Parkway.
Indeed - I was taking that as read.
The same obviously applies the other way around - you couldn’t travel Bath -Temple Meads - Parkway on a London - Temple Meads ticket. (But could on a London - Parkway ticket)
 

atillathehunn

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Sorry for this doubtless silly question.

I have a super off-peak return from Paddington to Parkway.

A change of plans might mean that I am now nearer Temple Meads for my return. Would I be allowed to start from Temple Meads? The barriers were open at Parkway, so perhaps I entered there without activating the ticket. It's not a disaster if not. I'll just ride up the hill to Parkway on a separate ticket and go 'back to normal'.
 

island

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Sorry for this doubtless silly question.

I have a super off-peak return from Paddington to Parkway.

A change of plans might mean that I am now nearer Temple Meads for my return. Would I be allowed to start from Temple Meads? The barriers were open at Parkway, so perhaps I entered there without activating the ticket. It's not a disaster if not. I'll just ride up the hill to Parkway on a separate ticket and go 'back to normal'.
You can use a Bristol P to London P ticket from Bristol TM to London P, but you must use it via Chippenham.

If you want to travel from Bristol TM to Bristol P and on to London B, you'll need some other ticket for the first bit.
 

Watershed

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Sorry for this doubtless silly question.

I have a super off-peak return from Paddington to Parkway.

A change of plans might mean that I am now nearer Temple Meads for my return. Would I be allowed to start from Temple Meads? The barriers were open at Parkway, so perhaps I entered there without activating the ticket. It's not a disaster if not. I'll just ride up the hill to Parkway on a separate ticket and go 'back to normal'.
You could certainly return from Temple Meads via Bath. However, you'd need an extra TM-Parkway single to go back via Parkway (unless it's a day trip and you travelled via Bath as far as TM on the way out, in which case the outward ticket would still be valid for TM-Parkway).
 

atillathehunn

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Thanks a lot for the advice. It's not a problem to return via Bath and Chippenham, but just whether I can save myself a trip up to Parkway.

I think I may now have used all the possible permutations of getting from Bristol to London. I have a regular but infrequent commitment here and the last time our service was diverted via (nearly) Westbury and the curve round onto the line to Newbury. I think the last infrequent possibility would be the Rhubarb curve to go from Parkway (the wrong way) to Paddington.
 
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