Riviera sells coaching stock to West Coast Railway Company

[RKynaston]

Posted in the charter thread as it seemed more relevant than the Rolling Stock one, but this has just flagged up on my social media. Appears to more of a owner selling up, than WCR looking to get around its situation with the ORR, and does not help the steam side of things of course, as with the exception of Tangmere, none of the WCRC steam fleet is air-braked. But an interesting move all the same.

Railway Herald :: Riviera Trains to sell carriage fleet to WCRC

www.railwayherald.com

It has been confirmed that independent rolling stock operator, Riviera Trains, has agreed the sale of its fleet of Mk2 coaches to Carnforth-based West Coast Railway Company.

The deal, which includes around 60 vehicles, including the two 'blue and grey'-liveried Mark 2 sets that are fully CDL fitted, has been concluded in recent days.

 

[Masbroughlad]

I wonder if WCRC will start running more individual railtours from around the UK again. They used to have a decent program of days out, in addition to the branded groups of tours - Jacobite, Scarborough Spa etc.

Went on a few decent ones - most recently to Betws-y-Coed and Swanage from Rotherham and Swinton (South Yorkshire) respectively.

Also, will WCRC hire out stock to third party operators? I guess they must be, if Pathfinder Railtours are continuing (unless that is part of the purchase/ sale agreement?).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is not the likelihood that they're buying these coaches because they're fitted with CDL for use on the Jacobite, providing a proper solution to that issue?

 

[paul1609]

Posted in the charter thread as it seemed more relevant than the Rolling Stock one, but this has just flagged up on my social media. Appears to more of a owner selling up, than WCR looking to get around its situation with the ORR, and does not help the steam side of things of course, as with the exception of Tangmere, none of the WCRC steam fleet is air-braked. But an interesting move all the same.

Railway Herald :: Riviera Trains to sell carriage fleet to WCRC

www.railwayherald.com

Aren't both of the Jacobite engines currently dual braked? Would it be cheaper to install dual braked functionality to their locos than to fit CDL to the VAC hauled coaches?

 

[fgwrich]

One thing this will allow is more rail tours to start from London and the South again as since Riviera's move from OOC & Eastleigh to Burton, most Pathfinder tours have started from the midlands.

 

[MiNi]

It will be interesting to see what happens over say the next 6-12 months. When the dust settles and they know how many CDL rakes of stock they have. Before the CDL rules came into force they/other toc's ran a number of charters all over the country .

 

[43096]

Is not the likelihood that they're buying these coaches because they're fitted with CDL for use on the Jacobite, providing a proper solution to that issue?

60 vehicles is a bit excessive for the Jacobite!

 

[Mollman]

60 vehicles is a bit excessive for the Jacobite!

They have just announced a Harry Potter remake!

 

[RKynaston]

Is not the likelihood that they're buying these coaches because they're fitted with CDL for use on the Jacobite, providing a proper solution to that issue?

If you read the story it says Barry Cordell who owns Riviera is stepping back from main line operations - ie the suggestion is it is a Riviera initiated sale, rather than a WCR initiated purchase. The Jacobite Mk2 rakes used this year are already CDL fitted.

Aren't both of the Jacobite engines currently dual braked? Would it be cheaper to install dual braked functionality to their locos than to fit CDL to the VAC hauled coaches?

All three of Ian Riley's operational 'Black 5's (44871, 45212 and 45407) are all air-braked, as is Tangmere, but all the rest of the WCR steam fleet are vac only. However, installing dual-brakes isnt really an option as the CDL on the Riviera Mk2s uses the air supply off the braking system, if there is no air, the CDL doesnt work.

One thing this will allow is more rail tours to start from London and the South again as since Riviera's move from OOC & Eastleigh to Burton, most Pathfinder tours have started from the midlands.

Potentially if some are based at Southall, but remember that both of the Blue & Grey sets have been used by Pathfinder, UK Railtours and GBRf for staff charters, as well as WCR on charters from the North West (ie Scarborough Spa) and on footex workings, so it may be more beneficial to keep them 'up norf. The article says "It is understood that through Mr Paget's new position, existing Riviera Trains third-party customers, such as GB Railfreight will still be able to hire the Mark 2 fleet for private and corporate workings if required, although this has not been confirmed by WCR." so if thats the case it will be interesting to see what UK Railtours do. I am hearing the suggestion that one of the blue & grey sets may become the dedicated set for Railway Touring Company.

60 vehicles is a bit excessive for the Jacobite!

These aren't for the Jacobite - ok, some may get mixed in next year, but not all are in working order. There are three operational sets I believe - two blue & grey and the scratch set moved to Carnforth recently from Burton for the Polar Express workings out of London. I suspect the rest are standby, vehicles that could be returned to service and spares supply.

 

[Deepgreen]

They have just announced a Harry Potter remake!

With 60-coach trains? Is that the rail equivalent of the the triple-decker RT?

 

[fgwrich]

Potentially if some are based at Southall, but remember that both of the Blue & Grey sets have been used by Pathfinder, UK Railtours and GBRf for staff charters, as well as WCR on charters from the North West (ie Scarborough Spa) and on footex workings, so it may be more beneficial to keep them 'up norf. The article says "It is understood that through Mr Paget's new position, existing Riviera Trains third-party customers, such as GB Railfreight will still be able to hire the Mark 2 fleet for private and corporate workings if required, although this has not been confirmed by WCR." so if thats the case it will be interesting to see what UK Railtours do. I am hearing the suggestion that one of the blue & grey sets may become the dedicated set for Railway Touring Company.

I'd be surprised if they don't, the intention is to have one rake at Carnforth, and the other at Southall. Possibly some will stay at Burton too for Midlands based jobs, but WCRC aren't immune to running ECS from Burton to Southall or Carnforth as shown by recent stock moves.

Indeed the press release states:

It is expected that the whole of the former Riviera Trains fleet will move from its current base at Burton-on-Trent to the WCRC facility at Carnforth in due course, with future operations being handled out of the WCRC depots at Carnforth and Southall.

 

[43096]

These aren't for the Jacobite - ok, some may get mixed in next year, but not all are in working order.

Well, yes. But I was responding to a specific point.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Pathfinder are not part of the sale.
Hopefully WCR will continue to modify the windows as per 6158 which went down a storm on yesterday's Cambrian run.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Aren't Pathfinder owned by Riviera ?

 

[Invincible]

From the article Patherfinder will continue as an independent company with involvement from Barry Cordell and rent the stock from WCR.

 

[renegademaster]

Will this have any effect on UK railtours ? Normally their setup is GBRF + Rivera Coaches. Will this mean seing more maroon 47s hauling railtours from London?

 

[Kite159]

Will this have any effect on UK railtours ? Normally their setup is GBRF + Rivera Coaches. Will this mean seing more maroon 47s hauling railtours from London?

I guess it depends how much West Coast will want to hiring out the coaches for both UK Railtours & the BLS.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I infer that Riviera are closing down their business - is the 'interesting' collection of locos at Burton also for disposal, or are they part of a different organisation?

 

[Iskra]

I infer that Riviera are closing down their business - is the 'interesting' collection of locos at Burton also for disposal, or are they part of a different organisation?

That's Nemesis Rail I think, not sure how inter-connected they are, if at all.

 

[Merle Haggard]

That's Nemesis Rail I think, not sure how inter-connected they are, if at all.

Thanks for the info.

 

[43096]

That's Nemesis Rail I think, not sure how inter-connected they are, if at all.

Nemesis do work for Riviera under contract. There's no other relationship between them that I know of.

 

[renegademaster]

The first WCRC - UK railtours collaboration out of this merger. "The Northern Brush" running from Blackpool to Manchester on november the 9th with WCRC 47s as mini tour formed from the Blackpool one

 

[driverd]

Pathfinder are not part of the sale.
Hopefully WCR will continue to modify the windows as per 6158 which went down a storm on yesterday's Cambrian run.

Could you expand on what these modified windows entail? A quick search on Google didn't yield anything other than pictures of a bog standard air con mk2.

 

[renegademaster]

It will be interesting to see what happens over say the next 6-12 months. When the dust settles and they know how many CDL rakes of stock they have. Before the CDL rules came into force they/other toc's ran a number of charters all over the country .

They never stopped. All it changed was the pool of locos they could use got heavily limited

 

[bleeder4]

Could you expand on what these modified windows entail? A quick search on Google didn't yield anything other than pictures of a bog standard air con mk2.

Here's a photo I took on a recent Pathfinder tour along the Cambrian Coast. One of the Riviera Mk2 TSOs had been fitted with sliding windows at the top in every second bay of four. Pathfinder had very sensibly positioned this coach right behind the locos in one direction of travel, a decision for which a lot of people were very happy! Plenty of YouTube videos as well. Just search for "Cambrian Coast Express" and set the filter to 12th September. Watch the videos and look for the coach at one end of the train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surprised they've been allowed to do sliders rather than hoppers, as while you couldn't get your head through there (it's too narrow) you could certainly stick an arm out and have it knocked off.

 

[driverd]

Here's a photo I took on a recent Pathfinder tour along the Cambrian Coast. One of the Riviera Mk2 TSOs had been fitted with sliding windows at the top in every second bay of four. Pathfinder had very sensibly positioned this coach right behind the locos in one direction of travel, a decision for which a lot of people were very happy! Plenty of YouTube videos as well. Just search for "Cambrian Coast Express" and set the filter to 12th September. Watch the videos and look for the coach at one end of the train.

Lovely! Thanks for the reply!

 

[Belfastmarty]

Good views of 6158 can be seen here :

 

[co-tr-paul]

Deleted due to unable to upload photos of sliding windows modifications !

 

[Rail Ranger]

Isn't having opening windows incompatible with air conditioning?