Route Query - London Terminals to Lancaster

[S19]

Hi All,

I've got an Off Peak Single ticket on Sunday for the following:

London Terminals to Lancaster.

Apart from the obvious Virgin Euston - Lancaster which routes is this valid on? I might fancy a change of scenery on the way home!

Thanks For You Help

 

[First class]

I would imagine you can go:

London Paddington-Reading-Banbury-Birmingham-Crewe-Warrington-Earlestown-Wigan-Lancaster...

alternatively, you could use Chiltern/WSMR between London Marybone and Banbury/Birmingham.

 

[sonic2009]

My attempt at roueting guide.

Lancaster Group to London Group
Maps BS+CS BS+GC CS+LM CS+NC LM LM+EH+NC
LM+MH+NC MM MM+PS+NC MM+PS+NW

Maps BS + CS

Lancaster to London Paddington, via birmingham,banbury,oxford,reading
Lancaster to London Marylebone, via birmingham,banbury,high wycombe

Maps BS + GC

Lancaster to London Marylebone,via birmingham,banbury,high wycombe

Maps CS + LM

Lancaster to London Euston, via Bolton, Manchester Piccadilly
Lancaster to London Euston, via Preston,Wigan,Warrington,Crewe,Trent Valley,Milton Keynes,Watford,London Euston
Lancaster to London Euston,via Birmingham

only doing these ones, as this is my 1st go. please correct me if i am wrong.

 

[bakerstreet]

My attempt at roueting guide.

only doing these ones, as this is my 1st go. please correct me if i am wrong.

Hi Sonic, I can't confirm the accuracy but I can say I have tried and tried and tried to get my head round the awkwardly spelt routeing guide but each time I get a headache!

Other members may know wehre this is, but there used to be an unofficial 'automatic' routeing guide which did routes bar the fare check. I think it was called core.

John's explanations and more importantly his instructions have come closest to teaching me so you're with one of the masters on this forum.

 

[bnm]

CORE (Clive's Online Routeing Engine) is not currently operational. A note on the website (http://www.davros.org/rail/routeing-guide.html) dated May '09 states:

"Apology: CORE is not currenly operational. I have moved my site to a new host and not yet got all the scripts converted and working."

 

[John @ home]

Maps BS + CS

Lancaster to London Paddington, via birmingham,banbury,oxford,reading
Lancaster to London Marylebone, via birmingham,banbury,high wycombe

Yes, these are correct.

Maps BS + GC

Lancaster to London Marylebone,via birmingham,banbury,high wycombe

In addition, BS + GC allows

Lancaster to London Paddington,via Birmingham, Banbury, High Wycombe and Greenford (very poor service).

Maps CS + LM

Lancaster to London Euston, via Bolton, Manchester Piccadilly
Lancaster to London Euston, via Preston,Wigan,Warrington,Crewe,Trent Valley,Milton Keynes,Watford,London Euston
Lancaster to London Euston,via Birmingham

These are valid routes using map LM on its own.

But for a combination such as CS + LM, the guide says the route is via any route on that map from the first routeing point to intercept point(s) for the next map without doubling back, then via any route within that map without doubling back to the last routeing point. It's not possible to use this combination for Lancaster - Euston because neither Lancaster nor Euston are on map CS.

It seems to me that CS + LM mainly duplicates the routes to Paddington and Marylebone via Banbury. Surprisingly, between Birmingham and Banbury it also allows a long deviation via Nottingham.

A good start! Well done.

 

[b0b]

I've had a go at writing my own CORE and its very difficult so I can appreciate the trouble it is to keep it running.

The most intensive problem is that the maps are provided as PDFs and require manual processing of nodes and vertices to calculate valid routes inside the individual maps. There are unfortunately over 100 maps to manually process.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here's what bob's core comes up with:

A routing points: [Routing Point LANCASTER GROUP]
B routing points: [Routing Point LONDON GROUP]

ROUTING Station LANCASTER TO Station LONDON EUSTON
10 routes found
route [Map NW, Map PS, Map MM]
Map NW to Map PS via [Routing Point STOCKPORT, Routing Point HAZEL GROVE, Routing Point MANCHESTER GROUP, Routing Point BOLTON, Routing Point GUIDE BRIDGE, Routing Point PRESTON LANCS, Routing Point WILMSLOW GROUP, Routing Point WIGAN GROUP]
Map PS to Map MM via [Routing Point NOTTINGHAM GROUP, Routing Point SHEFFIELD GROUP, Routing Point DERBY GROUP, Routing Point BARNSLEY, Routing Point DONCASTER, Routing Point CHESTERFIELD, Routing Point MEADOWHALL, Routing Point MELTON MOWBRAY, Routing Point OAKHAM, Routing Point LEICESTER, Routing Point LOUGHBOROUGH GROUP, Routing Point SWINTON S YORKS]

route [Map NC, Map PS, Map MM]
Map NC to Map PS via [Routing Point EARLESTOWN, Routing Point WARRINGTON GROUP, Routing Point HUYTON, Routing Point PRESTON LANCS, Routing Point CREWE, Routing Point HUNTS CROSS GROUP, Routing Point WIGAN GROUP]
Map PS to Map MM via [Routing Point NOTTINGHAM GROUP, Routing Point SHEFFIELD GROUP, Routing Point DERBY GROUP, Routing Point BARNSLEY, Routing Point DONCASTER, Routing Point CHESTERFIELD, Routing Point MEADOWHALL, Routing Point MELTON MOWBRAY, Routing Point OAKHAM, Routing Point LEICESTER, Routing Point LOUGHBOROUGH GROUP, Routing Point SWINTON S YORKS]

route [Map MM]

route [Map BS, Map GC]
Map BS to Map GC via [Routing Point BIRMINGHAM GROUP, Routing Point COVENTRY, Routing Point SMETHWICK GROUP]

route [Map LM]

route [Map NC, Map MH, Map LM]
Map NC to Map MH via [Routing Point BLACKBURN, Routing Point STOKE ON TRENT, Routing Point HELLIFIELD GROUP, Routing Point CREWE]
Map MH to Map LM via [Routing Point BLACKBURN, Routing Point STAFFORD GROUP, Routing Point STOCKPORT, Routing Point WILMSLOW GROUP, Routing Point CREWE, Routing Point HELLIFIELD GROUP, Routing Point MANCHESTER GROUP, Routing Point BOLTON, Routing Point STOKE ON TRENT]

route [Map LM, Map CS]
Map LM to Map CS via [Routing Point BLACKBURN, Routing Point WALSALL GROUP, Routing Point BIRMINGHAM GROUP, Routing Point BOLTON, Routing Point STOKE ON TRENT, Routing Point COVENTRY, Routing Point WILMSLOW GROUP, Routing Point SHREWSBURY, Routing Point WIGAN GROUP, Routing Point LONDON GROUP, Routing Point WOLVERHAMPTON, Routing Point WARRINGTON GROUP, Routing Point EARLESTOWN, Routing Point STOCKPORT, Routing Point MANCHESTER GROUP, Routing Point HUYTON, Routing Point LICHFIELD T V, Routing Point NUNEATON, Routing Point STAFFORD GROUP, Routing Point SMETHWICK GROUP, Routing Point PRESTON LANCS, Routing Point CREWE, Routing Point HELLIFIELD GROUP, Routing Point CLAPHAM JUNCTION, Routing Point TAMWORTH]

route [Map NC, Map EH, Map LM]
Map NC to Map EH via [Routing Point BLACKBURN, Routing Point HALIFAX GROUP, Routing Point EARLESTOWN, Routing Point WARRINGTON GROUP, Routing Point HUYTON, Routing Point HELLIFIELD GROUP, Routing Point HUNTS CROSS GROUP, Routing Point WIGAN GROUP]
Map EH to Map LM via [Routing Point BLACKBURN, Routing Point WARRINGTON GROUP, Routing Point EARLESTOWN, Routing Point HELLIFIELD GROUP, Routing Point BOLTON, Routing Point WIGAN GROUP, Routing Point HUYTON]

route [Map NC, Map CS]
Map NC to Map CS via [Routing Point BLACKBURN, Routing Point EARLESTOWN, Routing Point WARRINGTON GROUP, Routing Point RUNCORN GROUP, Routing Point HUYTON, Routing Point STOKE ON TRENT, Routing Point PRESTON LANCS, Routing Point HELLIFIELD GROUP, Routing Point CREWE, Routing Point HUNTS CROSS GROUP, Routing Point WIGAN GROUP]

route [Map BS, Map CS]
Map BS to Map CS via [Routing Point BLACKBURN, Routing Point WALSALL GROUP, Routing Point BIRMINGHAM GROUP, Routing Point BOLTON, Routing Point STOKE ON TRENT, Routing Point COVENTRY, Routing Point WILMSLOW GROUP, Routing Point SHREWSBURY, Routing Point WIGAN GROUP, Routing Point WOLVERHAMPTON, Routing Point STOCKPORT, Routing Point WARRINGTON GROUP, Routing Point EARLESTOWN, Routing Point MANCHESTER GROUP, Routing Point HUYTON, Routing Point LICHFIELD T V, Routing Point NUNEATON, Routing Point STAFFORD GROUP, Routing Point SMETHWICK GROUP, Routing Point PRESTON LANCS, Routing Point HELLIFIELD GROUP, Routing Point CREWE, Routing Point TAMWORTH]

 

[John @ home]

CORE (Clive's Online Routeing Engine) is not currently operational. A note on the website (http://www.davros.org/rail/routeing-guide.html) dated May '09 states:

"Apology: CORE is not currenly operational. I have moved my site to a new host and not yet got all the scripts converted and working."

The version of the Routeing Guide on which CoRE is based is now nearly ten years old. There have been too many changes for it still to be a reliable indicator of permitted routes.

One element of CoRE which still works is the mileage calculator, a copy of which is here. Station names must be entered in lower case. A few stations have closed and opened in the last ten years, and I think Leeds station is deemed to have moved 2 chains westward, but in the main it is still accurate.

An alternative mileage calculator is here and sometimes gives slightly different results, mainly due to different calculations when a train reverses during its journey.

 

[b0b]

So it looks like to me you can also go from St Pancras up the Midland Mainline as well, if you like going the slow way on a HST

 

[ashworth]

So it looks like to me you can also go from St Pancras up the Midland Mainline as well, if you like going the slow way on a HST

Lancaster to London St Pancras is valid via Manchester and Sheffield.

I can't work out whether it is valid via Skipton, Leeds and Sheffield because the websites direct you to change into the faster direct trains from Leeds to Kings Cross where it appears not to be valid. I think it is probably just not valid via Leeds full stop.

 

[b0b]

Lancaster to London St Pancras is valid via Manchester and Sheffield.

I can't work out whether it is valid via Skipton, Leeds and Sheffield because the websites direct you to change into the faster direct trains from Leeds to Kings Cross where it appears not to be valid. I think it is probably just not valid via Leeds full stop.

Using MM you can go Sheffield, Leeds and then Hellifield to Lancaster....

 

[John @ home]

I can't work out whether it is valid via Skipton, Leeds and Sheffield because the websites direct you to change into the faster direct trains from Leeds to Kings Cross where it appears not to be valid.

Using East Coast, enter LAN to STP via BNY (Barnsley). This offers:

0710 Lancaster - Leeds 0904
0937 Leeds - Sheffield 1037
1047 Sheffield - St Pancras 1306.