Scarborough to Wigan

[crispy1978]

I need to make a journey from Scarborough to Wigan this Friday, returning Monday. I know what time I am leaving Scarborough, but not an idea about coming back - so an offpeak return is sounding my best bet.

As I don't have to be in Wigan until around 22:30 on Friday, and will be on the 16:48 from Scarborough, I'm thinking about having a play around with the trains to stop at as many stations as possible which I haven't previously travelled at.

So - I am looking at this as an itinerary:

Scarborough 16:48
Huddersfield 18:25 18:31
Stalybridge 19:01 19:46 (time for a pint at the station!)
Warrington Central 20:30 (walk)
Warrington Bank Quay (walk) 21:15
Wigan North Western 21:26

Then, coming back - this is my loose idea at present - but could change:

Wigan North Western 17:09
Warrington Bank Quay 17:20 (walk)
Warrington Central (walk) 18:04
Manchester Oxford Road 18:36 19:07
Leeds 20:09 20:29 (Harrogate loop)
York 21:47 22:10
Scarborough 22:59

Some questions:
1 - can anyone see any flaws in that?
2 - is it valid on the £61.70 advertised offpeak return?
3 - can anyone see a cheaper option by splitting tickets - bear in mind apart from the 16:48 from Scarborough, advance tickets aren't really likely to work?
4 - does it comply with the Routeing Guide?

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[scarby]

Scarborough-Leeds £29 return
Leeds-Wigan (not via Preston/Liverpool) return £26.90

Total: £55.90

 

[soil]

Scarborough - Leeds is not valid via Harrogate, because it is not Route Direct.

Try Scarborough - Crowle, SVR, £43. This is valid to Stalybridge, where you will stop short (the full route is Scarborough - Manchester - Stockport - Sheffield - Doncaster - Crowle)

(Scarborough - Kirk Sandall, at £38.40 is also valid for this route, but there is an outbound break of journey restriction, so it may not be valid to stop short at Manchester.)

Then from Stalybridge to Wigan via Warrington, you need a Stalybridge - Wigan ticket.

Outbound an Evening Return, at £2.05, coming back an Off-peak Day Single, at £4

Total £49.05

 

[crispy1978]

Scarborough - Leeds is not valid via Harrogate, because it is not Route Direct.

Try Scarborough - Crowle, SVR, £43. This is valid to Stalybridge, where you will stop short (the full route is Scarborough - Manchester - Stockport - Sheffield - Doncaster - Crowle)

(Scarborough - Kirk Sandall, at £38.40 is also valid for this route, but there is an outbound break of journey restriction, so it may not be valid to stop short at Manchester.)

Then from Stalybridge to Wigan via Warrington, you need a Stalybridge - Wigan ticket.

Outbound an Evening Return, at £2.05, coming back an Off-peak Day Single, at £4

Total £49.05

I looked at where Crowle was, and found it is in North Lincolnshire - this seems a very strange option! Is this something which I am likely to find challenged by a conductor?

 

[John @ home]

Scarborough - Leeds is not valid via Harrogate, because it is not Route Direct.

Then use £29.00 Off-Peak Return Scarborough - Horsforth route Direct instead. There are no through SCA - HRS trains, and both routes via Garforth and via Harrogate are "the route of shortest distance or a distance longer by no more than 3 miles".

According to the Network Rail timetable, these are the shortest routes:

Shortest route from Scarborough to Horsforth (73.25 miles)
Scarborough 0, Seamer 2.75 Malton 21, York 42, Ulleskelf 50.75, Church Fenton 52.75, Micklefield 57.75, East Garforth 59.5, Garforth 60, Cross Gates 63, Leeds 67.5, Burley Park 69.75, Headingley 70.5, Horsforth 73.25.

Alternative route within 3 miles of the shortest (75 miles):
Scarborough 0, Seamer 2.75, Malton 21, York 42, Poppleton 45, Hammerton 50.75, Cattal 52.25, Knaresborough 58.75, Starbeck 60.25, Harrogate 62.5, Hornbeam Park 63.5, Pannal 65.75, Weeton 69, Horsforth 75.

http://www.bukitlawang.com/routes/routes.aspx

If using this ticket, you would need to travel via the Harrogate loop on the outward leg.

 

[soil]

The OP wants to travel via Harrogate inbound though .

Scarborough - Horsforth £29 SVR
Horsforth - Stalybridge £16.30 SVR
Stalybridge - Wigan £2.05 Evening Return
Wigan - Stalybridge CDS £4

£51.35 would work for the original itinerary.

 

[crispy1978]

The OP wants to travel via Harrogate inbound though .

Scarborough - Horsforth £29 SVR
Horsforth - Stalybridge £16.30 SVR
Stalybridge - Wigan £2.05 Evening Return
Wigan - Stalybridge CDS £4

£51.35 would work for the original itinerary.

That looks good - thanks!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That looks good - thanks!

Just a question - how do I get the evening return from Stalybridge to Wigan - is this something I would need to buy at the station, as I can't find it on the East Coast booking engine.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....
Stalybridge - Wigan £2.05 Evening Return
Wigan - Stalybridge CDS £4....

Via Warrington? I'd expect a few raised eyebrows with that one.

....Just a question - how do I get the evening return from Stalybridge to Wigan - is this something I would need to buy at the station, as I can't find it on the East Coast booking engine.

You may have to ask at a ticket office, but some online sites might offer it.

 

[yorkie]

Via Warrington? I'd expect a few raised eyebrows with that one.

Indeed.

I looked at where Crowle was, and found it is in North Lincolnshire - this seems a very strange option! Is this something which I am likely to find challenged by a conductor?

Yes, you are, though many won't challenge it because of the obscurity of the destination.

You asked for a "cheaper" option that was "[compliant] with the Routeing Guide" and that is exactly what Soil has provided.

Forum staff and Fares Advisors won't provide such options because we don't recommend tickets that involve starting/finishing 'short' on here, but others may well do.

I personally feel that, before giving such a recommendation, the person asking for advice should be asked if they are happy to use a route that they may be challenged on, and if they are happy to explain why it is valid or if they would prefer a hassle-free journey. If the advice is then given on the publicly-visible forum, the ticket needs to be purchased very soon as, if it is deemed a "loophole" then the Train Companies may see to it that the validity is removed before you, or anyone else, has the chance to purchase it. Some people think that's the best way to do things, but I am not sure.

It's quite common to get advice via PM, to avoid good value tickets having their validities and/or routeing options altered.

I get a lot of PMs saying "Please delete this post; this is a ticket I use and I don't want the validity to be removed, and now it's been posted on a publicly-visible forum it is at risk" and I have to explain, much to their disappointment, that I cannot do that.

In my experience the person asking for advice rarely wants to use such obscure tickets anyway, as the amount of hassle you can get really is incredible - though the vast majority of trips on obscure tickets go without any incident, a small number can be very unpleasant - dependent on your demographic profile and where you travel. I posted a list of examples recently, but I can't find it now, but in the most extreme case someone was falsely accused of having a gun so that FGW gateline staff at Paddington could have an excuse to delay an LU train on the Bakerloo line.

 

[crispy1978]

Via Warrington? I'd expect a few raised eyebrows with that one.

The normal £4 single ticket comes up on the East Coast website entering via Warrington. Is there an issue here I should be aware of?

It seems to fit the GM+XW maps on the routeing guide which the yellow pages suggests.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed.


Yes, you are, though many won't challenge it because of the obscurity of the destination.

You asked for a "cheaper" option that was "[compliant] with the Routeing Guide" and that is exactly what Soil has provided.

Forum staff and Fares Advisors won't provide such options because we don't recommend tickets that involve starting/finishing 'short' on here, but others may well do.

I personally feel that, before giving such a recommendation, the person asking for advice should be asked if they are happy to use a route that they may be challenged on, and if they are happy to explain why it is valid or if they would prefer a hassle-free journey. If the advice is then given on the publicly-visible forum, the ticket needs to be purchased very soon as, if it is deemed a "loophole" then the Train Companies may see to it that the validity is removed before you, or anyone else, has the chance to purchase it. Some people think that's the best way to do things, but I am not sure.

It's quite common to get advice via PM, to avoid good value tickets having their validities and/or routeing options altered.

I get a lot of PMs saying "Please delete this post; this is a ticket I use and I don't want the validity to be removed, and now it's been posted on a publicly-visible forum it is at risk" and I have to explain, much to their disappointment, that I cannot do that.

In my experience the person asking for advice rarely wants to use such obscure tickets anyway, as the amount of hassle you can get really is incredible - though the vast majority of trips on obscure tickets go without any incident, a small number can be very unpleasant - dependent on your demographic profile and where you travel. I posted a list of examples recently, but I can't find it now, but in the most extreme case someone was falsely accused of having a gun so that FGW gateline staff at Paddington could have an excuse to delay an LU train on the Bakerloo line.

Thanks for the explanation yorkie. Ordinarily, I am happy for something slightly obscure to be used if I can understand its validity - this one just seemed geographically strange to me - I understand that there are 'loopholes' in many walks of life - some of which are easier to 'exploit' than others. I'm using the Horsforth route, as this seems to make more sense to me - but I do appreciate all the different alternatives, and sometimes it is nice to see the loopholes to appreciate they are out there.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The normal £4 single ticket comes up on the East Coast website entering via Warrington. Is there an issue here I should be aware of?

It seems to fit the GM+XW maps on the routeing guide which the yellow pages suggests....

Well, fares across the TfGM area are subsidised by TfGM and Warrington is well outside the area, coupled with Manchester-Wigan tickets not being valid that way and Stalybridge-Warrington single tickets being £10 (with no cheap evening returns), I'd expect staff to be suspicious of the validity, even if it is valid.

 

[crispy1978]

Well, fares across the TfGM area are subsidised by TfGM and Warrington is well outside the area, coupled with Manchester-Wigan tickets not being valid that way and Stalybridge-Warrington single tickets being £10 (with no cheap evening returns), I'd expect staff to be suspicious of the validity, even if it is valid.

That makes sense, I can understand that. But - given that East Coast is showing it as a valid route (I can print out the route from the EC website) - should that be sufficient to be able to travel that way?

If it's likely to be a massive issue, then I'll just change at Manchester, and go direct to Wigan from there. I just wanted to visit those intermediary stations from Warrington to Manchester.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Like I say, I'd expect a few raised eyebrows.

 

[crispy1978]

Like I say, I'd expect a few raised eyebrows.

I'll just go Stalybridge-Manchester Victoria-Wigan Wallgate in that case. this would appear to show it as not being valid.

I'll save the Warrington leg for the next time I travel in that direction in that case then.

 

[soil]

I'll just go Stalybridge-Manchester Victoria-Wigan Wallgate in that case. this would appear to show it as not being valid.

I'll save the Warrington leg for the next time I travel in that direction in that case then.

I don't think that map is for routeing.

There is however a time restriction.

"Outward Travel
Any train between 1830 and 2100 daily."

NRE suggests that it is valid on the 18:46 from Stalybridge to Warrington, changing on to the 20:14 from Warrington to Wigan, which arrives at 20:25.

But not on the 19:46 which connects into the 21:15 from Warrington.

It seems to validate the departure time for each train, which I am not sure is correct.

E.g., it will sell an Evening Return on the 20:58 from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport, which arrives at 21:17; from Heald Green, which is passed at 21:02, you need an off-peak-day single.

Anyway.