"Service reported as being busy"

[CaptainHaddock]

As per the attached photo, for some time now the screens at Sheffield station have featured the text "service reported as being busy" below certain services, predominantly EMR trains to and from Liverpool. My question is, what is the intending traveller supposed to do with this information?

Do they decide not to board this train, instead catching a later one that could be just as busy but will also mean they arrive later at their destination? And surely if the previous service was busy, this one will be too? Or should they board the "busy" train anyway, resigning themselves to having to stand for a journey of nearly two hours?

Either way it seems another example of the railway giving passengers information they don't need to know that only creates doubt and uncertainty as to whether they will be able to complete their journey.

What do you think?

 

[james_the_xv]

It gives people travelling flexibly the option to board a different train. It's attempting to smooth the demand.

Either way it seems another example of the railway giving passengers information they don't need to know that only creates doubt and uncertainty as to whether they will be able to complete their journey.

I disagree, just because perhaps you don't find it useful as your travel plans are inflexible doesn't mean those with flexibility won't decide to go grab a coffee or a pint and wait for the next train.

 

[Steve4031]

My suspicion would be that later services would be busy, or that a cancellation would occur causing me to not be able to travel.

 

[Horizon22]

Either way it seems another example of the railway giving passengers information they don't need to know that only creates doubt and uncertainty as to whether they will be able to complete their journey.

What do you think?

How so? Trains will sometimes be busy and being in denial about it won't necessarily help so this allows expectations management and might make people consider an option to wait. People complain about too little information and now you're complaining about too much information. If the information is there to share, it may of benefit to some, even if you personally feel it isn't - I personally would like to know so I don't think you can claim "they" is universal.

 

[Ashley Hill]

It’s the same when a service is reported as “full & standing”. At least a passenger will know what to expect and has a choice of options before said train arrives.

 

[Peter Sarf]

How so? Trains will sometimes be busy and being in denial about it won't necessarily help so this allows expectations management and might make people consider an option to wait. People complain about too little information and now you're complaining about too much information. If the information is there to share, it may of benefit to some, even if you personally feel it isn't - I personally would like to know so I don't think you can claim "they" is universal.

I agree the information is better shared. The passenger can make up their own mind. In my case I might be more inclined to use the busy service in case the reason it is busy is because the alternative is cancelled.

 

[sprinterguy]

It gives people travelling flexibly the option to board a different train. It's attempting to smooth the demand.

I disagree, just because perhaps you don't find it useful as your travel plans are inflexible doesn't mean those with flexibility won't decide to go grab a coffee or a pint and wait for the next train.

Indeed, I was going to say that The Sheffield Tap is handy; I'll often retire there for an hour, or maybe two, to await a later train if one looks likely to be busy, as I have the flexibility to do so.

Though I am slightly surprised that an early Friday afternoon EMR Sheffield - Liverpool service was reported as busy when it, and the preceding EMR service, was running with the correct 4 coach formation and there were no adjacent cancellations. I am of course aware that it is a well used service, and I seem to have been quite fortunate in the trains I've used over that route recently.

 

[DLyle44004]

How so? Trains will sometimes be busy and being in denial about it won't necessarily help so this allows expectations management and might make people consider an option to wait. People complain about too little information and now you're complaining about too much information. If the information is there to share, it may of benefit to some, even if you personally feel it isn't - I personally would like to know so I don't think you can claim "they" is universal.

Fully agree. Knowing that a service is due to be busy might taper my expectations for a nice cushy service - seat included. With some TOCs offering the ability to check capacity via app, I think it is useful for the less digitally inclined to have this information up on display boards.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It’s the same when a service is reported as “full & standing”. At least a passenger will know what to expect and has a choice of options before said train arrives.

Indeed. Even if it means something like knowing I should get a quick bite to eat before boarding the train rather than expecting to get a seat and being able to eat comfortably on the train! As long as it isn't misleading, giving passengers more info is a good thing.

 

[RHolmes]

Indeed. Even if it means something like knowing I should get a quick bite to eat before boarding the train rather than expecting to get a seat and being able to eat comfortably on the train! As long as it isn't misleading, giving passengers more info is a good thing.

Or the more pertinent, use the station toilets now before the 90 minute trip to Liverpool

 

[geoffk]

Of course, if this train is reported as "busy" before arrival in Sheffield, a large percentage of the passengers may get off there.

 

[FOH]

Indeed. Even if it means something like knowing I should get a quick bite to eat before boarding the train rather than expecting to get a seat and being able to eat comfortably on the train! As long as it isn't misleading, giving passengers more info is a good thing.

Similarly using the station loos. All too often I see people on Southern extremely busy trains using the toilet for a seat and only reappearing as the train arrives at London bridge.

 

[Llanigraham]

Either way it seems another example of the railway giving passengers information they don't need to know that only creates doubt and uncertainty as to whether they will be able to complete their journey.

What do you think?

Just because you don't find it useful doesn't mean others don't.
If I saw that message and had time to spare I would quite likely wait for the next train

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Just because you don't find it useful doesn't mean others don't.
If I saw that message and had time to spare I would quite likely wait for the next train

And what would you do if the next service was "reported as being busy" too?

 

[Llanigraham]

This seems to be delving into the "whataboutery" territory now.

 

[Rail Quest]

I think this would be incredibly useful in many scenarios. I think back to a dreadful morning commuting into central Manchester from Urmston where successive cancellations meant the train was completely full. If the realtime boards had highlighted this when I arrived - I could have made the decision to get the bus instead into Manchester earlier and wouldn't have been as delayed as the train pulling in and then having to change plans.

I can also see this being useful on routes where there maybe two trains right behind each other that go to your destination - this information could potentially reliably inform the rail user that one of the trains is the better one to get based off the room available on board. Perhaps lines like the Manchester Airport line would find this particularly useful.

If this information leads to a passenger getting on a comparable but different train (IE in the OP's example, if the EMR to Manchester was very busy but the following TPE was not reporting as such so the passenger gets on the TPE instead), then this could help with better distributing passenger over multiple services IF the information is reliable.

 

[43066]

How so? Trains will sometimes be busy and being in denial about it won't necessarily help so this allows expectations management and might make people consider an option to wait. People complain about too little information and now you're complaining about too much information. If the information is there to share, it may of benefit to some, even if you personally feel it isn't - I personally would like to know so I don't think you can claim "they" is universal.

Agreed. This one is firmly in the “moaning for the sake of it” category for me!

Similarly using the station loos. All too often I see people on Southern extremely busy trains using the toilet for a seat and only reappearing as the train arrives at London bridge.

They may also be hiding in the toilet to avoid being asked to show their ticket .

 

[duffield]

Or the more pertinent, use the station toilets now before the 90 minute trip to Liverpool

If you have time you should *always* use the station toilets before travelling any significant distance. So many services have out of order toilets it's a real lottery. EMR's class 222/Meridian services seem particularly bad at present, presumably part of the general run-down state of these trains; often you at least need to trek through several carriages to get to a working loo.

 

[yorksrob]

On a four carriage 158 between Manc and Sheffield (or even a 158/156 or 158/163 combination) I'm generally not worried about loos. Even a single unit has two loos.

At the other end, the Northern unit with only one toilet on the other hand ....

 

[trainophile]

The full and standing information is not much help if you’re on an Advance ticket. It would just cause added stress.

 

[Djgr]

To me it strikes me as gaslighting by blaming the passenger for choosing to board a busy train when told rather than blaming the train operating company for choosing not to provide a service in line with the demand for it.

 

[Horizon22]

To me it strikes me as gaslighting by blaming the passenger for choosing to board a busy train when told rather than blaming the train operating company for choosing not to provide a service in line with the demand for it.

Who is "blaming the passenger"? Its simply a notification and suitable passenger information regarding the loading level of the service, not gaslighting. Such hyperbole...

 

[dk1]

Who is "blaming the passenger"? Its simply a notification and suitable passenger information regarding the loading level of the service, not gaslighting. Such hyperbole...

Exactly how I see it. Forewarned is forearmed.

 

[09matpal]

I can definitely see it being useful for me frequent services. Providing you could see the that following service didn't have the same message and for less frequent services would someone really wait an hour for a quieter train. I have only ever seen this message on the platform for the next train, which at that point I may as well stand on the train then stand on the platform.

I've only ever seen this message around the midlands with every EMR service on a Sunday having the same message which in that case isn't all that useful.

This kind of information could be useful, but I feel it would better at the booking stage. I'd love to see live and historic estimates on the business of a service when booking online/in app add then you can plan around it maybe go earlier or later.

 

[43066]

I can definitely see it being useful for me frequent services. Providing you could see the that following service didn't have the same message and for less frequent services would someone really wait an hour for a quieter train. I have only ever seen this message on the platform for the next train, which at that point I may as well stand on the train then stand on the platform.

I've only ever seen this message around the midlands with every EMR service on a Sunday having the same message which in that case isn't all that useful.

This kind of information could be useful, but I feel it would better at the booking stage. I'd love to see live and historic estimates on the business of a service when booking online/in app add then you can plan around it maybe go earlier or later.

Also most useful if it actually means the service is busier than usual eg because the previous train on the route was cancelled, or because there’s a special event on. It’ll be much less relevant on certain always-busy corridors.

Agree with your last paragraph. Southeastern do a similar PIS message along the lines of “there are usually many/few seats available on this train” which I always think is more useful on the website than at (say) 1700 at London Bridge, where waiting isn’t likely to result in a quieter train.

 

[sprinterguy]

for less frequent services would someone really wait an hour for a quieter train.

Yes, quite happily and not that infrequently when time allows. Makes for a much more pleasant travelling experience.

 

[Bovverboy]

I think I basically side with 'CaptainHaddock' on this point. The displayed information is potentially useful, but only if you know how to interpret it, and that probably needs a certain knowledge of how railways operate. Is the train running late (and picking up more passengers than usual), is it short-formed, or (as '43066' has said above), has the previous train on the route missed altogether. You probably need to be a regular passenger to know what to make of the information.

 

[09matpal]

Yes, quite happily and not that infrequently when time allows. Makes for a much more pleasant travelling experience.

I would also say I'd do the same, but the issue I have is where and when you get the information. If I read at home or out doing something then yeah I'd wait, but when I'm stood at the platform with 10-15 to go probably not, isn't always easy to leave out of the barriers.

 

[OscarH]

I can definitely see it being useful for me frequent services. Providing you could see the that following service didn't have the same message and for less frequent services would someone really wait an hour for a quieter train. I have only ever seen this message on the platform for the next train, which at that point I may as well stand on the train then stand on the platform.

I've only ever seen this message around the midlands with every EMR service on a Sunday having the same message which in that case isn't all that useful.

This kind of information could be useful, but I feel it would better at the booking stage. I'd love to see live and historic estimates on the business of a service when booking online/in app add then you can plan around it maybe go earlier or later.

I would agree here, it's useful if it's actually reliable live data, and not just blanket put on certain services/service groups potentially even in advance of the day

 

[Master29]

To be fair to the OP they do have a point. Putting the onus on the fault being with a passenger being inflexible isn't exactly fair though as the Lime Street to Norwich is nearly always overcrowded. I know we have to be flexible at times but this is a route that is in need of overhauling even though I know this is unlikely to happen anytime soon. At least EMR did give an opportunity under the circumstances.