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Sheffield - Scarborough recessed into bay P7 at Doncaster

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Old Yard Dog

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Yesterday I was on the 1257 Sheffield to Scarborough when it was held at Doncaster due a trespass incident near Gilberdyke. To clear through P8, the train went forward and then reversed into bay P7 with us passengers still aboard. How rare is this manoeuvre?

Interestingly we were overtaken 1326 Hull Trains Doncaster - Hull which runs via Selby. This was despite us having been advised over the tannoy that our train couldn't divert via Selby as that route also passes through Gilberdyke. However the culprits were eventually apprehended and my Northern Train ran via Goole and actually beat the Hull Trains working into Hull.
 
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RailUK Forums

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Not as rare as you would think.
Keeping through platforms clear is vital at Doncaster, very easy to create a log jam of trains if you lose one through platform.
it sounds as if one or more of the train crew on your train did not sign via Selby, and so your train had to wait until the route via Goole was available. Hull Trains crews sign via Selby as it is their usual route.
 

Meerkat

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Yesterday I was on the 1257 Sheffield to Scarborough when it was held at Doncaster due a trespass incident near Gilberdyke. To clear through P8, the train went forward and then reversed into bay P7 with us passengers still aboard. How rare is this manoeuvre?

Interestingly we were overtaken 1326 Hull Trains Doncaster - Hull which runs via Selby. This was despite us having been advised over the tannoy that our train couldn't divert via Selby as that route also passes through Gilberdyke. However the culprits were eventually apprehended and my Northern Train ran via Goole and actually beat the Hull Trains working into Hull.
Presumably it didn't actually reverse, to be slightly pedantic, but the driver switched ends?
 

Tram203

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If it was going one way then started going the opposite way, reversing is an acceptable term to use.
 
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liamf656

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In what way? The train is reversing both ways. I appreciate the driver changing ends may not always happen, but it is still a reversal whether the driver changes ends or not.
I always saw it as switching ends being that the driver goes to the opposite cab and drives the train forwards, but in the opposite direction, and reversing being that the driver stays in the same cab and sets back (which happens less often especially on multiple units)
 

Gloster

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Possibly the old term, but moving a train like that (move forward if necessary, swing the points, move back into another line) was known as backing: this might be (Great) Western (Region) terminology. At one place I worked we could back trains from the platform into the passenger loop (the loop’s exit points were immediately before the platform ramp) using a ground disc: there was a Facing Point Lock installed to allow the manoeuvre, but I have done it elsewhere after a point clip has been put on. There were even special backing signals installed at some locations.
 

Falcon1200

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In my experience driving from the rear cab of a train was termed propelling, regardless of the type of stock and where the actual power unit(s) might be. With multiple units the Driver can, and always will, be in the leading cab of any movement.
 

Adrian Barr

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To clear through P8, the train went forward and then reversed into bay P7 with us passengers still aboard. How rare is this manoeuvre?

A few weeks back the opposite thing happened (train planned to use a bay had to use platform 8 at Doncaster) when a Lincoln train had a 3-coach Turbostar on it, a bit too long for the usual platform 5.

I've not personally witnessed a reversing move of a through service into P7 when I've been lurking at Doncaster, although I remember another unusual move a few years back in the other direction. The wires were down somewhere south of Doncaster and a southbound service (I think it was a Hull Trains 222 unit) came through the station before reversing into bay platform 2, keeping it out of the way during the disruption.

I seem to remember using platform 7 fairly recently (maybe last year) when platform 0 was out of use for a while, but that was on regular terminating services from the Thorne route.

On 4th September there was the unusual sight of a Grand Central unit in platform 6. Passengers arriving at P4 on 180108 (1N95 Kings Cross - Sunderland) had to transfer to 180107 in P6 which then continued as 1N95.
180107 had arrived empty stock from Crofton, and 180108 headed there as a 5Z95 once its passengers had detrained. This is turn led to 331003 using P7 on the 16:27 local to Leeds.

I always saw it as switching ends being that the driver goes to the opposite cab and drives the train forwards, but in the opposite direction, and reversing being that the driver stays in the same cab and sets back (which happens less often especially on multiple units)

I think it would be reasonable to say that the driver changed ends and the train reversed...

Looking in a London North Eastern sectional appendix from 2020, for example, it says things like "...the Driver must bring the train to a stand clear and in rear of ground position light signal DY.300
for a reversal movement. The Driver must then change ends through the unit or by using the Down Main line cess
."

Or for "Morpeth DMU reverse sidings" it says "When ready to depart, drivers of reversing trains must contact the signaller."

In my experience driving from the rear cab of a train was termed propelling, regardless of the type of stock and where the actual power unit(s) might be.

Interesting... I was wondering if there was a different term for driving a unit from the rear cab but maybe not!

With freight trains, as I understand it, propelling would be any movement where a train with a loco (or locos) at one end only is pushing the wagons from the rear, although within a yard maybe you would just call that shunting!

A "reversing movement" on a freight schedule (as opposed to a run round) would normally imply some some sort of fixed formation that can be driven from the other end (a top & tail freight, a Railhead Treatment train, MPV e.t.c.).

Having said that, it's interesting to consider the exact difference between the old "propelling control vehicles" used on the mail trains out of Willesden, and a driving van trailer used on passenger trains... I would guess a PCV would have become a DVT if it was designed to be on the front of the train when driven at line speed (rather than restricted to low speed movements).

I don't know if propelling and setting back have distinct meanings, but to me "setting back" sounds like a situation where you pass over a set of trailing points, and then use them for a propelling move in the facing direction (to access a siding or something). Maybe these terms are defined in the rule book somewhere...
 
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