Shepherd's Well-Dover Priory points disaster

[brad465]

I found out today that due to damaged points in this area this stretch of line will be closed until later this month, while Network Rail gets an order in for new points, so I'm guessing they're design is not a common type used in the country. :cry:

 

[John55]

While the loss of normal service between Shepherd's Well and Dover is no doubt annoying and inconvenient it is not a disaster.

 

[MikeWh]

I tend to agree, disaster is not the word I would have used. Embarrasing maybe given that NR have just been completing the resignalling of the whole of East Kent.

 

[Tin Rocket]

I dont know the points you are talking about as i don'twork down that way,but in a more general context you would be surprised at how bare the cupboards are on the maintenance side,we carry hardly any spare materiel now,no slack in the supply chain whatsoever.

 

[Williamt]

Hello,

(New here but have been reading the forums occasionally for some time.)

Unless I'm very much mistaken, the points in question are here:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=51.137342,1.292358&spn=0.003295,0.00825&gl=uk&vpsrc=0&t=h&z=18

They're near to Buckland in Dover, which is actually between Dover Priory and Kearsney on the Canterbury/Faversham line (Shepherds Well is the next station up and where trains are now terminating.) They switch trains between Canterbury and the Ramsgate line.

This (published by Network Rail on Twitter a few hours ago) is the greatest level of detail I've been able to find so far: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/f5j9hp

South Eastern were putting out a line earlier saying that the repair would be delayed due to access to the site, but Network Rail seem to be saying it's down to the particular part. (Anyway, if it just part of a set of points, surely the easiest way to reach it is by rail?)

There has been bad weather in Kent this week. Also the new signalling on this line (control room in Gillingham) was switched on a week ago (a few days later in North East Kent.) Most people seem to believe that these points were among the 80 replaced as part of the programme, but I've not heard anyone confirm that and the work has been going on for up to 2 years so who knows when it was actually done.

(I'd add I was quite suspicious before NR put their statement out; it occurred to me - pure speculation I'd add - that perhaps the points had been set incorrectly when a train passed over them, and perhaps as a result there had been damage to the track or train.)

"Some" trains during the morning peak are going to run from Dover via Canterbury/Faversham (would be interesting to know the working procedure for *that*) but the rest of the time the line will be set to Walmer, Deal and Sandwich. Intermediate rural stations like the one I closest to me aren't too badly affected (same frequency of trains) but if you actually need to get to Dover from Canterbury it's a pain (if you're in London you're far better off going via Ashford.) Maybe Southeastern will allow travel on normal tickets on HS1 (though I suspect not.)

Obviously hearing from someone who actually knows what's happening would be a nice change from relying on my own guesswork...

(This comes a few days before the Hastings to Ashford via Rye line closes for a whole 9 weeks due to work on the Ore tunnel.)

 

[dstrat]

Disruption expected until 28th! These points made out of gold owned by Lord Lucan or something? Or need to be delivered to earth by some sort of being from outside the solar system?

 

[Schnellzug]

Disruption expected until 28th! These points made out of gold owned by Lord Lucan or something? Or need to be delivered to earth by some sort of being from outside the solar system?

Oh of course. We don't need to make anything in this country these days, and we can't just instal anything over a weekend or anything like that. that's just so hopelessly old-fashioned. We have to spend months and millions in designing everything, and then we have to import it from somewhere or other, because it's so much more efficient than doing anything ourselves. That's just so Old Labour.

 

[Hydro]

I don't think I've ever installed a half set or crossing that wasn't ordered new, and had to be made up according to my measurements and specifications.

It takes time, even with priority, to make - and to get possessions to deliver and replace the parts (which may not happen in the same night).

 

[xjn47]

What was it that damaged the points?

 

[causton]

I don't think I've ever installed a half set or crossing that wasn't ordered new, and had to be made up according to my measurements and specifications.

It takes time, even with priority, to make - and to get possessions to deliver and replace the parts (which may not happen in the same night).

How hard is it to get a possession on a closed line though?

 

[Bald Rick]

It's a broken crossing, derailment risk if left in. Points will have been plain lined in the Ramsgate direction.

It's almost certainly a non-standard crossing, and will have triggered a nationwide search for anything similar that could be 'persuaded' to fit. Evidently this has not proved successful. So it will have to be specifically forged at one of the 3(?) S&C manufacturing plants as a rush job (normally a 6 week order timescale), then delivered, then a suitable possession - probably about 6-8 hours - to fit it. As the line to Ramsgate is very much open, best bet is the weekend after delivery.

 

[MikeWh]

How hard is it to get a possession on a closed line though?

I'm not sure that it is a closed line. It seems like most of the time the trains are running between Dover and Deal, with just a few morning ones from Dover to Canterbury. In the reverse direction it's only running from Deal to Dover which suggests that it's that switch which is broken.

 

[Hydro]

How hard is it to get a possession on a closed line though?

As has been said, it's not closed. The line to Ramsgate via Deal is still open.

 

[xjn47]

Has this affected trains towards London Victoria? Checking National Rail Enquiries for trains from RAI to VIC it is only giving times for High Speed services. Does this mean for those with tickets to London Victoria you must change at St Pancras.

 

[brad465]

Has this affected trains towards London Victoria? Checking National Rail Enquiries for trains from RAI to VIC it is only giving times for High Speed services. Does this mean for those with tickets to London Victoria you must change at St Pancras.

Buses replace trains between Shepherd's Well and Dover, and direct trains to London only are running in peak times. Services are running between Faversham and Shepherds Well, serving alternate stations.

 

[Clip]

It's a broken crossing, derailment risk if left in. Points will have been plain lined in the Ramsgate direction.

It As the line to Ramsgate is very much open, best bet is the weekend after delivery.

The line to Ramsgate is a very different line to the one where Shepherds well is so how can they be left plained in the Ramsgate direction? Faversham or Dover?

 

[Hydro]

Are we not talking about Buckland Junction, where the Ramsgate line diverges?

 

[chuffchuff]

Are we not talking about Buckland Junction, where the Ramsgate line diverges?

Yup, and the crossover is u/s on the down Vic where it crosses the down CX

 

[Old Timer]

Disruption expected until 28th! These points made out of gold owned by Lord Lucan or something? Or need to be delivered to earth by some sort of being from outside the solar system?

It really is not that simple at all.

I believe that both Corus and Progress Rail do not manufacture crossings in the UK, and these have to be procured from abroad. It must also be remembered that these Companies do most of their work with overseas clients, and that the manufacturing process for S&C is planned long term.


There are not many "spare" slots in the manufacturing programme that allow for someone to simply turn up and walk away with a bespoke unit. The assembly lines are planned out months, sometimes years beforehand.

Slotting another unit in is not that easy at all given that many orders are for time critical delivery. Many Railways place orders up to five years out so as to benefit from the pricing efficiencies that this brings and they will not disrupt a planned order simply to help out Network Rail.

Remember also that S&C units being manufactured for installation in the UK will themselves be on a tight timescale, which means that missing the weekend could mean a deferrment for several months or inded years.

 

[craigwilson]

Yup, and the crossover is u/s on the down Vic where it crosses the down CX

u/s? What does that mean?

 

[ilkestonian]

u/s? What does that mean?

Unserviceable (not Up Slow!)

 

[craigwilson]

Unserviceable (not Up Slow!)

Cheers

 

[brad465]

Of course this all happening just after all the east kent signals have been replaced, so not a good start sevice wise in this area.

 

[Hydro]

Yup, and the crossover is u/s on the down Vic where it crosses the down CX

Ouch!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Something was posted on a Yahoogroup earlier saying the new pointwork should be installed on the 28th January.

 

[Cletus]

Interesting picture from DoverForum.com

28 January 2012 - 10:46am#1 "If you wondered why buses have replaced trains to Canterbury here's the answer.

A piece of pointwork broke at Buckland Junction and was temporarily replaced by a straight piece of rail. If you look at the circle you will see a large gap in the Canterbury down line. Apparently it should have been replaced this weekend but as yet there's no sign of that happening."

 

[Hydro]

The replacement crossing is on site, saw it in the cess last night.

 

[Bald Rick]

All fixed