Shorter journey times between Amsterdam and Berlin as of December 2023

[DanielB]

As of the start of the 2024 timetable in December 2023, the first step for speeding up the IC Amsterdam - Berlin by 30 minutes will be taken. This first step involves shortening the journey time to 5 hours and 50 minutes.

The shortened journey is among other things made possible by the ICE-L trainsets DB has ordered, but delivery of these trains is delayed: expected is that the carriages will be ready earlier than the locomotives.
In order to be able to offer the shorter journey time as of December 2023, NS will lease additional Vectron locomotives to be used with the old carriages and later also the new ones.

Due to stability issues with the tracks those new locomotives, which are heavier than the current ones, will run at maximum 100 km/h on parts of the route between Amsterdam and Deventer. Here the timetable allows for those lower speeds.
Between Deventer and the border there isn't enough slack in the timetable to allow for slower speeds, so instead the tracks and soil below will be monitored while trains will run at maximum track speed.

As an additional measure a new tailtrack and platform will be constructed east to the current platforms at Oldenzaal station, allowing the RS24 service to reverse there simultaniously with the IC Berlin passing at maximum track speed in both directions. (Currently it has to avoid the reversing RS24 via the goods tracks, but the timetable won't allow for the slower speeds required anymore as of 2024)

Source: Translation from ProRail press release (in Dutch)

 

[AdamWW]

As of the start of the 2024 timetable in December 2023, the first step for speeding up the IC Amsterdam - Berlin by 30 minutes will be taken. This first step involves shortening the journey time to 5 hours and 50 minutes.

The shortened journey is among other things made possible by the ICE-L trainsets DB has ordered, but delivery of these trains is delayed: expected is that the carriages will be ready earlier than the locomotives.
In order to be able to offer the shorter journey time as of December 2023, NS will lease additional Vectron locomotives to be used with the old carriages and later also the new ones.

Due to stability issues with the tracks those new locomotives, which are heavier than the current ones, will run at maximum 100 km/h on parts of the route between Amsterdam and Deventer. Here the timetable allows for those lower speeds.
Between Deventer and the border there isn't enough slack in the timetable to allow for slower speeds, so instead the tracks and soil below will be monitored while trains will run at maximum track speed.

As an additional measure a new tailtrack and platform will be constructed east to the current platforms at Oldenzaal station, allowing the RS24 service to reverse there simultaniously with the IC Berlin passing at maximum track speed in both directions. (Currently it has to avoid the reversing RS24 via the goods tracks, but the timetable won't allow for the slower speeds required anymore as of 2024)

Source: Translation from ProRail press release (in Dutch)

Glad I went on it when I could while they're still doing the engine (and voltage) change at Bad Bentheim then.

 

[306024]

Interesting, thanks. When I used the service a few weeks ago it was Dutch loco 1744 on German stock to Bad Bentheim, then all change for an ICE forward.

 

[AdamWW]

Interesting, thanks. When I used the service a few weeks ago it was Dutch loco 1744 on German stock to Bad Bentheim, then all change for an ICE forward.

Interesting. I don't think it's normally supposed to work like that.

 

[superalbs]

Interesting. I don't think it's normally supposed to work like that.

It isn't! I've never heard of an ICE at Bad Bentheim.

 

[306024]

It isn't! I've never heard of an ICE at Bad Bentheim.

Didn’t occur to me that it was unusual, just assumed it was a loco problem. I got an email from DB that morning to say my journey from Amersfoort to Osnabrück was cancelled, but when I got to Amersfoort station was told a replacement train was provided to Bad Bentheim. Booked stock, even had my seat reservation shown. The direct route from Bad Bentheim to Osnabrück was blocked by planned engineering work so the ICE reversed at Münster, which may, or may not, have had something to do with it. It did seem to be a relatively last minute arrangement though.

 

[superalbs]

Didn’t occur to me that it was unusual, just assumed it was a loco problem. I got an email from DB that morning to say my journey from Amersfoort to Osnabrück was cancelled, but when I got to Amersfoort station was told a replacement train was provided to Bad Bentheim. Booked stock, even had my seat reservation shown. The direct route from Bad Bentheim to Osnabrück was blocked by planned engineering work so the ICE reversed at Münster, which may, or may not, have had something to do with it. It did seem to be a relatively last minute arrangement though.

Did the ICE carry the same or similar number to your planned IC?

 

[306024]

Did the ICE carry the same or similar number to your planned IC?

It may have been a similar number from memory, I was on IC 143, so perhaps something like ICE 9143 - Can’t say for certain. It was back on Thursday 04/08/22 if that helps.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Will this be affected by the huge rebuilding works at Amsterdam Centraal? I am not quite sure when that is supposed to happen (I see elsewhere on this forum, that those works may affect the Eurostar Services from / to London and the Netherlands. Maybe just going to / from Rotterdam.)

I would like to do a Through Eurostar journey from London to Amssterdam and from there to Berlin.

 

[DanielB]

Not likely in 2024 as the works in Amsterdam have not even started. But as part of the SAAL program (expanding services on the Amsterdam - Almere - Lelystad corridor) Amersfoort is due to loose its IC to Amsterdam Centraal in favor of more services to Amsterdam Zuid and Schiphol.
As the Berlin-bound IC is currently integrated into the Amsterdam - Amersfoort IC service's timetable, I suspect it will also be affected.

Not sure if it then also will be extended beyond Schiphol. For some domestic services plans exist to run Amersfoort - Rotterdam via Schiphol and the high speed line when ICNG is introduced. That may also be an option for the Berlin IC when the ICE-L is running.

 

[JonasB]

Nice to see an improvement being made where it is possible instead of just waiting for the ICE-Ls. But, 100 km/h is embarrassingly slow for an Intercity train between two western european capital cities.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I have just been looking up the details of the ICE-Ls, it seems to be 17 carriages, but these are shorter than on the current ICEs and from the way I read it, the current 7 car ICE will be longer? Is that correct. Interesting that the are being made by a Spanish company. I think The Talgos/AVEs in Pain have short carriages too? The above mentioned 100 KMH is slow rather only about 60MPH.

 

[Bemined]

That 100kmh restriction is not all the way but only on some short parts of the route, it shouldn't make a difference here since the train will run in the path of a regular intercity there anyway. The line is too busy to fit a fast train here anyway.

 

[DanielB]

The speed restriction only applies to the following parts of the route between Amsterdam and Amersfoort:
- Amsterdam –> Weesp
- Weesp – Naarden-Bussum v.v.
- Baarn – Amersfoort v.v.

So exactly the parts of the route passing through a polder have a limited stability, while the parts on higher sandy grounds are no problem.

Like Bemined already mentioned the Amsterdam - Amersfoort route is an extremely busy one. Parts of the route have 6 Sprinters, 4 Intercities and cargo paths on a dual track route with a relatively large number of intermediate stops: Sprinters have to leave just behind the Intercity at Hilversum to reach Weesp in time to be overtaken by the next IC.

The practical joke sometimes used is that Amsterdam - Amersfoort is slower today than it was in the steam train era.

 

[Austriantrain]

I have just been looking up the details of the ICE-Ls, it seems to be 17 carriages, but these are shorter than on the current ICEs and from the way I read it, the current 7 car ICE will be longer? Is that correct.

Seven-car ICEs, whichever series, are always around 200 meters long and can run doubled-up.

The ICE-L will be 255m including the loco, so longer, but unable to run as a double-set (not technically, but because of platform length).

 

[Bemined]

The Intercity from Amsterdam to Berlin currently runs with locomotive + 9 carriages, which is also around 255m, so the new trains will be about the same length.

 

[JonasB]

The speed restriction only applies to the following parts of the route between Amsterdam and Amersfoort:
- Amsterdam –> Weesp
- Weesp – Naarden-Bussum v.v.
- Baarn – Amersfoort v.v.

So exactly the parts of the route passing through a polder have a limited stability, while the parts on higher sandy grounds are no problem.

A bit better at least.

Like Bemined already mentioned the Amsterdam - Amersfoort route is an extremely busy one. Parts of the route have 6 Sprinters, 4 Intercities and cargo paths on a dual track route with a relatively large number of intermediate stops: Sprinters have to leave just behind the Intercity at Hilversum to reach Weesp in time to be overtaken by the next IC.

The practical joke sometimes used is that Amsterdam - Amersfoort is slower today than it was in the steam train era.

Sounds like HSL-Oost would have been useful.

 

[DanielB]

Sounds like HSL-Oost would have been useful.

The HSL Oost as it was originally planned is not really useful for trains crossing the border at Bad Bentheim however, as it was originally planned from Amsterdam via Utrecht to the border crossing at Zevenaar / Emmerich. Running a train to Berlin via that route is possible of course, but the routes from Oberhausen further towards Berlin are already quite full.

Improving the current route to allow higher speeds would run into some complications: the current line runs through the Naardermeer which is a nature reserve (so not a lot will be possible there). And it just happens to be a bit of a winding route. The detour via Deventer doesn't help in that. (The original Oosterspoorweg from 1874-76 ran from Apeldoorn via Zutphen, Goor to Hengelo; much more direct as clearly visible on the map. However the route via Deventer served larger more important towns and thus was doubled and electrified becoming the main line in the 1950s)

 

[StephenHunter]

Wouldn't changing this service to ICE mean a fare hike?

 

[DanielB]

Not sure, it's called ICE but has a lower speed than other ICEs: the ICE-L can run at maximum 230 km/h, the current coaches at 200 km/h.

 

[rvdborgt]

The Intercity from Amsterdam to Berlin currently runs with locomotive + 9 carriages, which is also around 255m, so the new trains will be about the same length.

The new sets have fewer seats though than the current trains. A bit more in in 1st class but significantly fewer in 2nd:

https://twitter.com/KeesEurotravel/status/1570072728647999488

Unless they plan to run double ICE-L sets at peak times, capacity on this route will be reduced, despite the annual increases in passenger numbers.

 

[AdamWW]

Unless they plan to run double ICE-L sets at peak times, capacity on this route will be reduced, despite the annual increases in passenger numbers.

Or, perhaps, run more frequently?

(Someone above said the platforms are too short for them to run as double sets)

 

[rvdborgt]

Or, perhaps, run more frequently?

(Someone above said the platforms are too short for them to run as double sets)

That is probably correct. >500 m is probably too long. With only 23 sets ordered currently, I doubt there is much capacity to run more frequently (or with double sets), also taking into account they will be used for some other services apart from Amsterdam-Berlin.

 

[Bemined]

In the Netherlands the typical platform length for intercity trains is 340 metres. Only the stations served by Thalys, Eurostar and ICE have 400+ platforms (often only on the platforms used by these services) by design, there are some other stations with long platforms but those are generally for historical reasons and they do tend to shorten these platforms to the standard length when redesigning the station.

 

[Trainbike46]

That is probably correct. >500 m is probably too long. With only 23 sets ordered currently, I doubt there is much capacity to run more frequently (or with double sets), also taking into account they will be used for some other services apart from Amsterdam-Berlin.

Published plans do exist to run more frequently, with half the trains following the current stopping pattern and the other half running with fewer stops to enable faster journeys. Now let's hope they actually run those extra trains