Should companies still be able to use 0870 (premium rate) numbers for payment lines?

[CharlieSpotted]

Mod Note: Post #1 originally in this thread.

I can't believe companies are still getting away with using 0870 numbers for stuff like this...

 

[Ediswan]

In principle, no.
In practice, depends how long the call takes, could be cheaper than the 'traditional' method of sending a cheque in the post.

 

[ainsworth74]

In practice, depends how long the call takes, could be cheaper than the 'traditional' method of sending a cheque in the post.

Surely the company should just provide a national rate (or even free depending on the callers contract) line like 0345 or similar number?

 

[danm14]

In practice, depends how long the call takes, could be cheaper than the 'traditional' method of sending a cheque in the post.

Given that most people will be calling from a mobile, in most cases the cost will be well over 50p per minute. Unless the call takes less than a minute (almost impossible), it will be significantly more expensive than sending a cheque in the post.

One should also remember that a portion of the charge for calling an 0870 number goes to the operator of the number, in this case the railway company, whereas the cost of sending a cheque by post goes to Royal Mail.

 

[ess]

Find an alternative at saynoto0870.com

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite a few allow online payment. This is probably the most sensible way. Then it's reasonable for anyone not willing to do it that way to pay towards the cost of a member of staff for them to do it.

 

[Ediswan]

Quite a few allow online payment. This is probably the most sensible way. Then it's reasonable for anyone not willing to do it that way to pay towards the cost of a member of staff for them to do it.

Do the 0870 numbers get through to a human, or is the process automated ?

 

[ainsworth74]

Quite a few allow online payment. This is probably the most sensible way. Then it's reasonable for anyone not willing to do it that way to pay towards the cost of a member of staff for them to do it.

I'd be staggered if they weren't going to automated payment systems!

 

[sor]

it's worth pointing out that "local" and "national" rate do not exist and realistically haven't done for decades (when BT stopped charging for calls based on their distance). It all got merged into "landline" (with the exception of the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, which are part of the UK numbering plan but charged differently) and then 0845/0870 suddenly became much more expensive to call. Not helped by revenue sharing arrangements where companies benefited from keeping you on hold.

And so came 03xx, which has to be treated in the same way as a call to a landline, and it has to be "free" using your minutes if your calling plan includes those. This is why virtually every organisation that does not use 0800/0808 or an 01/02 number has moved to these. There is a government edict that departments, councils etc must move to them, but I guess GA or whoever handles this does not count. Given the railway's glacial approach to technical change it may be that no one has noticed the problem...

If it was for a different matter then I'd be calling the normal number and asking to be transferred. I suppose if you're already being given the mercy of an OOC settlement, you wouldn't want to risk it by being so officious

 

[Bletchleyite]

And so came 03xx, which has to be treated in the same way as a call to a landline, and it has to be "free" using your minutes if your calling plan includes those. This is why virtually every organisation that does not use 0800/0808 or an 01/02 number has moved to these. There is a government edict that departments, councils etc must move to them, but I guess GA or whoever handles this does not count. Given the railway's glacial approach to technical change it may be that no one has noticed the problem...

I believe it's illegal for a customer service line for existing customers to be premium rate, i.e. it has to be free, geographic, 07xx or 03xx.

I guess the TOC would argue here that the person concerned isn't a customer as they haven't paid their fare.

 

[Capvermell]

The 03 number range was introduced as as the result of the efforts of myself and other campaigners associated with www.saynoto0870.com but Ofcom, the regulator failed to permanently deal with the problem for existing users of these numbers by closing down the 084 and 087 number ranges.

This has left us in the bad situation of most respectable and responsible companies having switched to using 03 numbers that don't cost extra several years ago but certain companies with a bad attitude to customer service and who only care about what's cheapest for them continue to wrongly use 084/7 numbers.

This is Ofcom's latest form of equivocation and prevarication on the issue at www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-2/service-charge-caps when these number ranges very clearly should just be permanently closed down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't see an issue with companies that have sales lines with a person when you can buy online and want to charge more for that service. Though I suppose it can be done another way by charging more for the product/service involved. In this case the settlement could be £100 if paid online or £110 if paid by telephone, say. As it's a settlement and not a statutory penalty it can be whatever the TOC wants it to be.

 

[Capvermell]

I can't see an issue with companies that have sales lines with a person when you can buy online and want to charge more for that service. Though I suppose it can be done another way by charging more for the product/service involved. In this case the settlement could be £100 if paid online or £110 if paid by telephone, say. As it's a settlement and not a statutory penalty it can be whatever the TOC wants it to be.

If these companies want to charge extra for phoning them then they should have to use an 09 premium rate number that is widely recognised as higher cost and most people would never dream of calling at all from their mobiles in particular. They shouldn't be able to use a number that due to history people misperceive as being local or national rate and then end up getting vastly overcharged for. And there should also be an audio announcement of the unusual high tariff levels and non inclusion in calling plans before you are connected.

There are actually requirements to disclose the access and service charges associated with these 084/7 numbers in writing to callers but most of the renegedes who still use them, just because it would cost them very slightly more to switch to an 03 prefixed number charged at normal call rates and included in all calling plans, ignore all of that completely and Ofcom and the ASA fail to do anything useful about it.

 

[Watershed]

Regulation 41(1) of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 provides that:

Where a trader operates a telephone line for the purpose of consumers contacting the trader by telephone in relation to contracts entered into with the trader, a consumer contacting the trader must not be bound to pay more than the basic rate.

Subparagraph (2) provides that any amount the consumer is nevertheless charged (as a result of the trader operating a non-basic rate line) is deemed a debt owed by the trader to the consumer.

Whether the telephone line in this particular instance would be seen as falling into this category is unclear; if pressed, the TOCs would no doubt either seek to argue that the telephone line falls outwith the ban as it allows passengers to enter into a new contract (an out of Court settlement), or because it relates to a criminal offence committed by the passenger, not to the original contract.

Suffice it to say, even though 0870 numbers are expensive to call, it is unlikely that anyone would pursue the matter in Court.

 

[Capvermell]

Suffice it to say, even though 0870 numbers are expensive to call, it is unlikely that anyone would pursue the matter in Court.

This is precisely why the 084 and 087 number ranges should be shut down by Ofcom to prevent the continued harm done through their continued existence by a small hardcore number of particularly cynical and non customer focused businesses.

Alternatively simply change the 084 and 087 number ranges to only being charged at standard geographic 01/02 rates in the same way as already applies with the 03 number range.