Should restrictions be eased fully if Indian Variant case rates do not decline before June 21st?

If case rates do not decline before June 21st, what do you think should happen with the roadmap?

  • Go ahead with easing of all Covid restrictions on June 21st, assuming vaccinations are ramped up

    Votes: 174 52.9%
  • Go ahead with stage 4 of easing restrictions on June 21st, but keep masks and WFH guidance

    Votes: 29 8.8%
  • Ease some stage 4 restrictions on June 21st, but keep others for longer

    Votes: 36 10.9%
  • Postpone stage 4 easing to a later date in the worst affected hotspots

    Votes: 17 5.2%
  • Postpone stage 4 easing to a later date everywhere

    Votes: 47 14.3%
  • Impose new localised restrictions in the worst affected hotspots

    Votes: 7 2.1%
  • Impose new national restrictions

    Votes: 11 3.3%
  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 8 2.4%

  • Total voters
    329
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yorksrob

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If restrictions aren’t eased as planned on June 21st on the basis that more adults need to be vaccinated, I think it would make sense to allow under-40s to be offered the Oxford AZ jab again, on the basis that blood clotting poses less of a risk than the impact of continued restrictions and the Indian variant. Considering that Moderna has barely taken off, Pfizer is expecting a delay in supplies and Janssen availability is some weeks off yet, there’s not much choice available for the younger population desperate to get back to normal.

Indeed. It seems nonsensical not to at least offer the option.
 
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Silver Cobra

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With everything that's happened in the last few weeks and what the government/scientists/media are all saying, it feels to me like it's more certain than not that Boris will be announcing a delay to the 21st June easing of restrictions on Monday, and with it more than likely being four weeks. If this does happen, I just hope that we don't get to 12th July and have Boris announce even further delays or bringing back further restrictions (my fear is that we delay it once, we keep delaying it pretty much forever).
 

jumble

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I suspect a lot of businesses are bugged by the possibility that they could be called out and shamed.

There’s certainly been issues in my town - a florist was reported for serving customers via a table in their front door, whilst at least two pubs have notices up asking customers to ensure they follow the rules as “we’ve had the police called on us”. Then there was a shop subjected to a Facebook thread which ran into over a hundred posts, which started because a member of staff wasn’t wearing a mask - reading the majority of posts you’d have thought the place in question was akin to the devil.

I do think attitudes are changing though, the rump we’re left with is people who have an ulterior agenda, or just plain trouble stirrers.
What is so unfair is that the police would not dare go after some of the bigger chains who do not seem to be making the slightest efforts to enforce any rules in the few that I have attended.
I've said it before and I will say it again
I am so glad I live in London where the trouble making idiots for businesses who just want to survive are few and far between
 

TheBeard

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If your job can be remote just how long before they outsource it to india. That is the real aim here.
 

WelshBluebird

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If your job can be remote just how long before they outsource it to india. That is the real aim here.
If the job could be easily and reliably outsourced, it is likely it would have already been tried.
And of course, what you often see with outsourcing is the quality is just not the same, which is why quite often those outsourcing experiments fail and you get those jobs coming back here (call centres a great example of that).
 

DelayRepay

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Don't be silly!!!

Labour should be out there challenging the government, looking at the data and providing secondary independent view of next actions to take.
The most likely challenge we'll see from Labour is that a two week delay isn't long enough, and we should close the shops and pubs again.
 

bramling

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If the job could be easily and reliably outsourced, it is likely it would have already been tried.
And of course, what you often see with outsourcing is the quality is just not the same, which is why quite often those outsourcing experiments fail and you get those jobs coming back here (call centres a great example of that).

This is very true, however it doesn’t stop us having a very rocky few years whilst the apple cart is well and truly upset, which is what’s going to happen as the consequences of prolonged lockdowns are felt.

There’s also going to be plenty more pushing through unpopular things on the pretence of Covid. Indeed we’ve already seen plenty of that, and no doubt this is just the thin end of the wedge.

We’re not going to get back stuff which has already gone, but we don’t need to lose more.
 

Smidster

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If your job can be remote just how long before they outsource it to india. That is the real aim here.

"The real aim" - Of who exactly?

Are you really suggesting that the British Government are recommending an extension to WFH with the aim that companies will outsource jobs from Britain resulting in higher unemployment and all the problems that brings.

We are talking about 4 weeks under the current rules which are certainly not "Lockdown" - While that is rubbish and we all wish it wasn't the case if it gives us that extra little bit more time to get even more people protected then I am content with that.

I just hope people do not overreact to the announcement - We are very very nearly there.
 

Crossover

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This group may not cause civil unrest, their closure/restrictions can cause a lot of noise/headaches for the Government though, especially via Tory backbenchers looking out for their interests and/or supporting freedom generally. They've largely been quiet since the roadmap was announced and it's following to time so far, any delay here will test that resolve.
I think even aside from protests, people are voting with their feet. I have been on relatively few trains of late (due to not having a need) but one of those I was on was packed to the gunwales last Bank Holiday, people are out on the road, in town etc
 

Eyersey468

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"The real aim" - Of who exactly?

Are you really suggesting that the British Government are recommending an extension to WFH with the aim that companies will outsource jobs from Britain resulting in higher unemployment and all the problems that brings.

We are talking about 4 weeks under the current rules which are certainly not "Lockdown" - While that is rubbish and we all wish it wasn't the case if it gives us that extra little bit more time to get even more people protected then I am content with that.

I just hope people do not overreact to the announcement - We are very very nearly there.
My concern is though will they find excuses to keep extending and extending? I don't trust them not to.
 

Silver Cobra

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We are talking about 4 weeks under the current rules which are certainly not "Lockdown" - While that is rubbish and we all wish it wasn't the case if it gives us that extra little bit more time to get even more people protected then I am content with that.

While this will still cause a lot of issues for large parts of the hospitality and leisure/tourism sector, and I hope they do get the necessary support to get through the four weeks, I can just about accept this for the reason you have already posted. However, like I alluded to in my last post, I am concerned that this will only be the start of a constant delay to these final easing of restrictions.

My concern is though will they find excuses to keep extending and extending? I don't trust them not to.

Exactly
 

bramling

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"The real aim" - Of who exactly?

Are you really suggesting that the British Government are recommending an extension to WFH with the aim that companies will outsource jobs from Britain resulting in higher unemployment and all the problems that brings.

We are talking about 4 weeks under the current rules which are certainly not "Lockdown" - While that is rubbish and we all wish it wasn't the case if it gives us that extra little bit more time to get even more people protected then I am content with that.

I just hope people do not overreact to the announcement - We are very very nearly there.

My biggest worry with extending things into July is that this is pushing things closer to autumn, whence the next movement of the goalposts will be that we need restrictions to cater for autumn and winter.
 

joncombe

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My concern is though will they find excuses to keep extending and extending? I don't trust them not to.
Exactly. It started out as 3 weeks to "flatten the curve". How anyone could believe it won't be extended again having been lied to so many times before I don't know.
 

Bantamzen

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"The real aim" - Of who exactly?

Are you really suggesting that the British Government are recommending an extension to WFH with the aim that companies will outsource jobs from Britain resulting in higher unemployment and all the problems that brings.

We are talking about 4 weeks under the current rules which are certainly not "Lockdown" - While that is rubbish and we all wish it wasn't the case if it gives us that extra little bit more time to get even more people protected then I am content with that.

I just hope people do not overreact to the announcement - We are very very nearly there.
No, if the restrictions are extended we go from very nearly there to further away. And then in 2 weeks time the experts will be bleating for longer still from the comfort of their laptops. June 21 needs to be the definitive line in the sand, otherwise this cycle will continue indefinitely.
 

initiation

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My biggest worry with extending things into July is that this is pushing things closer to autumn, whence the next movement of the goalposts will be that we need restrictions to cater for autumn and winter.

This. I raised this issue back at the start of the year in some posts.

If we have not got rid of all restrictions by the start or middle of August we will have them until next year. After that date it is schools and universities going back, then autumn/winter.
A month beyond the 21st (I wonder if they will round up to 5 weeks or down to 4) is taking us dangerously close to this time.
I in no way support an extension but if there is, there should be clear criteria for it's purpose. Is it to first jab all over 18s? Is it to double jab all over 50s? We cannot have moving goal posts.

We had a world beating lead on vaccine deployment and have totally thrown it away.

It is amazing looking at footage from many US states of packed festivals and sports arenas while we cannot gather in more than groups of 6 indoors.
 

Cdd89

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I don't think it needs to be a long delay - Open up vaccine eligibility to all adults on June 21st and then look to release everything 4/5 weeks from then.
If the argument is that we need to ensure more people at the top end of the age range are double vaccinated, then that’s one thing (even though I don’t agree).

But vaccinating 18-25 year olds as the goal to opening up is a tautology. If they’re at risk from new variants then we should give them AZ. If they’re not then we should open up.
 

brad465

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If your job can be remote just how long before they outsource it to india. That is the real aim here.
The rentier economy contains a large amount of lobbying clout that has and will try to prevent WFH becoming the norm. For the same reason I expect they'd have something to say about jobs disappearing from the country altogether.

In this article where public health officials are unsurprisingly calling for a delay, the comments below don't seem happy with the idea of a delay (there's even a top one going after Prof Susan Michie directly):


Lifting the last Covid restrictions in England on 21 June should be delayed to "stop us going backwards", public health officials have said.
Unlocking then would risk an increase in hospital admissions, the Association of Directors of Public Health said.
The government is expected to announce on Monday whether it will remove the last of the restrictions a week later.
Minister Nadhim Zahawi said it had to be careful not to squander the progress made in tackling the virus.
The final stage of lifting restrictions would see all legal limits on social contact removed. Nightclubs would reopen, and restrictions on performances, weddings and other life events would also be lifted.
But concerns about the spread of the Delta variant, first identified in India and now dominant in the UK, have led some scientists to call for a delay to ending lockdown.
The latest official data suggests there have been nearly 30,000 new UK cases of the Delta variant in the past week, accounting for 90% of cases.
Public Health England said nearly two thirds of people infected with the variant have not had a vaccine at all.
 

NSEFAN

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If it could be done in an office here, why not in an office in India?

See where I'm going with this?
Indeed. Plus the savings of having fewer people in offices, reduced travel expenses etc mean that companies are still saving money. Employees in many cases are just as productive, sometimes more due to not being tired from commuting!
 

J-2739

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In this article where public health officials are unsurprisingly calling for a delay, the comments below don't seem happy with the idea of a delay (there's even a top one going after Prof Susan Michie directly):

That comment section is a total minefield. Worse than anything I've seen on the Daily Mail. Not conductive to reasonable discussions at all.
 

Cdd89

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In this article where public health officials are unsurprisingly calling for a delay, the comments below don't seem happy with the idea of a delay (there's even a top one going after Prof Susan Michie directly):

That article is platitude central. Here are a few:
if we "invest that little bit of time to keep us going forwards, it will stop us going backwards".
investing a bit of time is really important to enable the vaccine programme to finish and do its job
"We have to be really careful so that those hard won wars against the virus are not squandered."

Though you have to look elsewhere for my favourite anti-easing platitude “we’ve come too far to blow it now”.

If there were genuine objections they would be in the article, rather than a load of drivel about not going backwards. These platitudes won’t save the government in the event that they acquiesce to them.
 

kristiang85

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That comment section is a total minefield. Worse than anything I've seen on the Daily Mail. Not conductive to reasonable discussions at all.

It is somewhat heartening to see the BBC comments section being most anti prolonging restrictions.

A few months ago it was the most rabid of lockdown supporting groups.

I do think things will get quite messy for the government if there is a delay.
 

PTR 444

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The Parkrun thread is locked so I thought I’d post here instead. A new date of June 26th has been confirmed for resumption of all events, but ONLY if the June 21st easing goes ahead…

Parkrun events are set to return in more than 500 locations on 26 June after approval was gained from a large number of local authorities.

Organisers had said they were "fearful for our future" and asked Prime Minister Boris Johnson to intercede.
The free 5km events were due to resume on 5 June but were delayed after only a third of landowners gave permission.

The new restart date is subject to the UK government's coronavirus roadmap announcement on 14 June.

… which I think is bizarre to say the least. Organised outdoor sport has been allowed since March 29th and Parkrun were initially planning to resume events two weeks before stage 4 anyway. While planning application delays have pushed this date back, why they would now choose to delay in the event of stage 4 easing not going ahead on the 21st is beyond me, particularly as nothing in the regulations will further affect organised outdoor sport at that point.
 

duncanp

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Last night was the first of the new series of The Hotel Inspector and perfectly illustrated this point, the tourism, leisure and hospitality sectors have been thrown to the wind under lockdowns

I saw that programme, but I doubt whether Susan Michie, Professor Pantsdown, Devi Sridhar or any of the other tiresome locktivists that have blighted our lives since March 2020 did.

And if they did, I bet they don't give a <what bears do in the woods> about the consequences of the restrictions that they advocate.
 

Ediswan

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In this article where public health officials are unsurprisingly calling for a delay, the comments below don't seem happy with the idea of a delay (there's even a top one going after Prof Susan Michie directly):

Some of the posters there seem to under the impression that the variants are named from the phoentic alphabet rather than Greek. As chance would have it, only alpha and delta have got much mention in the UK, so they can be excused.
 

yorksrob

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If it could be done in an office here, why not in an office in India?

See where I'm going with this?

If the same job can be done abroad, we should tax the outsourcing of that job to take account of the loss of wealth to the British economy.

We demand a "level playing field" in the trade in goods, why not for labour ?
 

Eyersey468

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I saw that programme, but I doubt whether Susan Michie, Professor Pantsdown, Devi Sridhar or any of the other tiresome locktivists that have blighted our lives since March 2020 did.

And if they did, I bet they don't give a <what bears do in the woods> about the consequences of the restrictions that they advocate.
I doubt they did either and doubt they care about the damage caused, though I do wonder if their tune will change when a close friend or family member is told they don't have a job any more due to their employer going bust.
Boris and the others have long since squandered what goodwill I had, I don't trust them or believe a word they say. I believe things when they happen now and will not be voting for any of the main political parties for the foreseeable future
 

joncombe

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I doubt they did either and doubt they care about the damage caused, though I do wonder if their tune will change when a close friend or family member is told they don't have a job any more due to their employer going bust.
Boris and the others have long since squandered what goodwill I had, I don't trust them or believe a word they say. I believe things when they happen now and will not be voting for any of the main political parties for the foreseeable future
Well I do know someone that was all in favour of restrictions until a relative living abroad became ill and they wanted to be able to visit and suddenly they thought the rules for overseas travel should be relaxed for those visiting families (but not for holidays).
 

Jamesrob637

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But what if the 21st goes ahead and deaths/hospitalizations/cases don't rise more than predicted? Has the Government not thought this way? A few more will sadly have to die of this either way: that's the nature of the beast. But if that number is significantly lower than the number of suicides and job/business losses, then you have the lesser of two evils.
 
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