South Western Railway - Report for prosecution for buying wrong fair

[Lyonboy]

Hi everyone - my friend has just received a letter from South Western Railway as she was travelling to Waterloo from Syon Lane but only paid for a ticket from Vauxhall to Waterloo, she was then caught by a member of staff in Waterloo and confessed to this. She was then not given the option to pay a fine on the spot but was told a letter would be sent home - this letter has now been received - typed out below.

"An officer from South Western Railway spoke to you on xxx April 2024 at London Waterloo railway station regarding your travel on that day. Further information is required from you to ensure that South Western Railway have all the facts and information at hand before coming to a decision regarding your case.

On xxx April 2024 you were asked to provide a valid ticket for the journey you had made. You showed a ticket from Vauxhall to London Waterloo but admitted to the officer that you have travelled from Syon Lane without a valid ticket.

Our records show that you have purchased and used many similar tickets since 20th August 2023. Ticket scan data shows that these tickets were only scanned in at one end of each journey. Please explain the journeys you made on these days.

If you fail to respond, this matter may proceed to Court and formal proceedings may follow. Please note that CCTV and ticket scan data may be produced as evidence should the matter proceed to court".

Main question is really how do we respond to this matter and what will happen? This has happened probably around 10 - 20 or so times (do we need to go in and find out exactly?), which we understand is not good, but would love to just pay any fines associated and avoid court at all costs. What is the likelihood of this being taken to court? I understand that this is a crime but I would personally think quite small in the grand scheme of crimes to warrant court? We are moving country in August so would like for this to be settled before then - do you know how long these proceedings also take?

Greatly appreciate anyone's advice if they know of anyone who has been in similar situations and what the next steps are.

Thanks!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi everyone - my friend has just received a letter from South Western Railway as she was travelling to Waterloo from Syon Lane but only paid for a ticket from Vauxhall to Waterloo, she was then caught by a member of staff in Waterloo and confessed to this. She was then not given the option to pay a fine on the spot but was told a letter would be sent home - this letter has now been received - typed out below.

"An officer from South Western Railway spoke to you on xxx April 2024 at London Waterloo railway station regarding your travel on that day. Further information is required from you to ensure that South Western Railway have all the facts and information at hand before coming to a decision regarding your case.

On xxx April 2024 you were asked to provide a valid ticket for the journey you had made. You showed a ticket from Vauxhall to London Waterloo but admitted to the officer that you have travelled from Syon Lane without a valid ticket.

Our records show that you have purchased and used many similar tickets since 20th August 2023. Ticket scan data shows that these tickets were only scanned in at one end of each journey. Please explain the journeys you made on these days.

If you fail to respond, this matter may proceed to Court and formal proceedings may follow. Please note that CCTV and ticket scan data may be produced as evidence should the matter proceed to court".

Main question is really how do we respond to this matter and what will happen? This has happened probably around 10 - 20 or so times (do we need to go in and find out exactly?), which we understand is not good, but would love to just pay any fines associated and avoid court at all costs. What is the likelihood of this being taken to court? I understand that this is a crime but I would personally think quite small in the grand scheme of crimes to warrant court? We are moving country in August so would like for this to be settled before then - do you know how long these proceedings also take?

Greatly appreciate anyone's advice if they know of anyone who has been in similar situations and what the next steps are.

Thanks!

Welcome to the forum

The first thing to say is that since you are on quite a short timescale, you will want to do everything you can to keep things moving - so you should aim to reply to this letter sooner rather than later.

The second is that the railway will probably be keen to settle this 'out of court': that's because there are time limits on quite what can be prosecuted, and they may feel that a better way of getting your friend to learn the lesson that it's important to pay the right train fare is for your friend to repay all the train fares they dodged plus an admin fee. In one way, this is good news for you and your friend as this is likely to be a fairly quick process. But it does also involve your friend being as honest as they can be: if the railway thinks that they're not being honest, then the railway may decide that prosecution is the way to go.

You should also know that in practice the railway companies have access to everyone's ticket-buying history. If your friend has been buying tickets online, the railway will be able to see this - and their phrase

Our records show that you have purchased and used many similar tickets since 20th August 2023

says to me that they already know how many times your friend dodged the fare. So it's important to come clean and admit to all the cases that the railway knows about: as a simple example, if the railway think your friend has done this 20 times, and you write back admitting to doing it 10 times, then the railway will think that your friend is lying, and will prosecute rather than allow an out of court settlement.

So you and your friend need to look at how many times you think you have done this. Look at your trainline (etc) accounts. If that doesn't help, try credit card/bank statements and your diary. Then look at the number of times you have come up with. Does it seem about right to you? If so, go ahead and let the railway know about how many times it has happened. Your friend also needs to convince the railway that it won't happen again - so apologise, and explain how you're going to make sure that you have the right ticket before getting on the train.

We can't guarantee that the railway won't take your friend to court - but by being apologetic, and honest your friend can maximise the chance that this can be settled out of court

 

[Lyonboy]

Thanks a lot for this - definitely put our mind at ease slightly. Have you been a part of a process like this or is this just from reading many online?

Anyone else would still greatly appreciate any insights you can share

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thanks a lot for this - definitely put our mind at ease slightly. Have you been a part of a process like this or is this just from reading many online?

This is from spending some time observing the advice given on this list, and the feedback we get when cases come to an end (that's one of the reasons we very much appreciate people letting us know what happens in their cases!).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Lyonboy. Shouldn't be unduly expensive to resolve, unless there have been many more such journeys made where the correct fare hasn't been paid that you're not telling us about. An Anytime Day Single from Syon Lane to Vauxhall or London Waterloo is currently £6.70 (per one way journey) or £6.40 for travel undertaken before the March 2024 fares increase. So, factoring in the usual three figure sum that SWR are likely to add on for their admin and investigation costs, 20 return trips (if that's the correct number) will likely cost you a few hundred quid in total. An expensive lesson, but not life changing.

 

[Crithylum]

If your friend is making this journey in future, they should use Oyster/contactless, as it is £3.80 off peak £5.10 peak. Off peak, a legitimate Oyster fare is 10p cheaper than the incorrect £3.90 anytime ticket

 

[30907]

She was then not given the option to pay a fine on the spot but was told a letter would be sent home.

Just for clarification - on the spot fines (Penalty Fares) are not normally given when people are obviously defrauding the railway as your friend was.

But please tell them not to panic - as you say, in the grand scheme of things this is only a minor crime, and they won't end up in jail. Make sure that you can access your mail, though, if you don't hear before you relocate.

 

[Lyonboy]

Thank you very much all for your messages, so helpful! For the letter, I will get my friend to acknowledge everything and profusely apologise for what has happened and highlight how many times this has happened - should we then just suggest to pay these fairs plus any fines in the letter or just highlight that it happened then ask them what happens next?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

should we then just suggest to pay these fairs plus any fines in the letter or just highlight that it happened then ask them what happens next

Your friend needs to understand that it's for the railway to decide what happens next: on the basis of what you have told us, if the railway took your friend to court the railway would win. So although it's a small thing, rather than your friend offering to pay the outstanding fares and admin cost , your friend needs to ask if it would be possible to settle by paying the outstanding fares and admin cost. If the railway is kind enough to agree with that, then that's a win.

And although that's extra hassle for you, as we have discussed earlier you and your friend want to resolve this quickly. So make the effort to make it easy for the railway to do what you want.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We see lots of cases like this on the forum. What you've done is known as short faring which is a criminal offence and many would argue that if someone who evades their fares on a regular basis over a long period of time doesn't end up in court then you have to ask how serious a case has to be to end up in court. That said, SWR are generally one of the more reasonable train companies to deal with when it comes to this sort of thing as long as you co-operate with their investigation.

I recommend replying with a short, concise letter mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter
- Research your online ticket purchase history to find out how many times you have evaded your fare and tell them. You need to make it easy for SWR to deal with your case.

SWR are normally prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and whoi haven't come tot heir attention before. We cannot guarantee this and they are within their rights to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court should they want to. If you are offered a settlement then expect to have to pay the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase. In addition you will have to pay an admin fee, typically around £150, to reflect SWR's costs in dealing with yoiur case. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered, payment in installments isn't normally allowed.

Paying an out of court settlement might feel like a fine but technically it isn't - only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction, and you won't have a criminal record if you pay a settlement. If the matter does end up in court then realistically they would only prosecute you for the single incident where you were caught but you would end up having to pay a fine based on your income, a surcharge, compansation for the fare avoided and SWR's court costs. You would also have a criminal record.

We are moving country in August so would like for this to be settled before then - do you know how long these proceedings also take?

How does you moving country affect your friend? Or is this case actually about you.....?

I would tell SWR that you are moving and give contact details. It typically takes them a few weeks to respond and we're going into peak holiday season. Once you do move I'd arrange for your post to be redirected by Royal Mail if the atter hasn't been resolved.

If you post a copy of your draft reply in this thread then forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Lyonboy]

Thank you all very much for all of your help, we will go ahead and respond to the letter based on your comments - and will let you know the outcome to help you in the future for advice!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you all very much for all of your help, we will go ahead and respond to the letter based on your comments - and will let you know the outcome to help you in the future for advice!

This part of the advice is probably something I would suggest you do on your friends behalf or get them to do. This can help get the wording of what needs to be said as best as it can be:

"If you post a copy of your draft reply in this thread then forum members will be happy to proof read it for you."

 

[Lyonboy]

Sorry if i could just ask a few more questions - we are drafting the letter know, is it worth the letter being reviewed by a lawyer - we have worked out that we have underpaid by GBP 127 from August - April. Would you have any specific wording we could say about this in order to re-pay the full fares + admin costs and then to settle this outside of court?

My friend has genuinely been under a lot of pressure with various different things going on in her life - is it worth mentioning this or not? My opinion is that she shouldn't as they will see it as a ploy to let her off as I imagine that many people do this. However, this is genuinely true in her case which is why i have the question?

Really appreciate everyones help so far and thanks in advance for this one

 

[WesternLancer]

Sorry if i could just ask a few more questions - we are drafting the letter know, is it worth the letter being reviewed by a lawyer - we have worked out that we have underpaid by GBP 127 from August - April. Would you have any specific wording we could say about this in order to re-pay the full fares + admin costs and then to settle this outside of court?

My friend has genuinely been under a lot of pressure with various different things going on in her life - is it worth mentioning this or not? My opinion is that she shouldn't as they will see it as a ploy to let her off as I imagine that many people do this. However, this is genuinely true in her case which is why i have the question?

Really appreciate everyones help so far and thanks in advance for this one

Have a look at some other threads for examples of draft letters involving this type of evasion

but

- ref using a lawyer - feedback on your draft from people here will probably be just as good (and free) - if your request to settle does not work then that could be the time to engage a lawyer, but I would suspect you need to prepare for c£500+ legal fees for their help if you use a lawyer

- Your estimate of underpayment needs to be based on the full Anytime, Single Ticket price with no allowance for what has been paid already. That is £6.70 from Syon Lane to London Waterloo I believe (or from Syon Lane to Vauxhall buy the looks of it), but if you do mention / or address their point about other instances of evasion it might be better to mention the number of occasions, not the sum you / friend think you have not paid - others will give good advice on this point I think

- The general advice here is to 'not tell a sob story' and I suspect being under pressure in life would probably fit that category. It would perhaps be possible to use a phrase like 'I am sorry that I made a severe error of judgement in avoiding the rail fares that I should have paid, for which I apologise. I have been under a considerable amount of pressure with certain problems in my life that contributed to this but I realise my actions were not acceptable, for which I apologise'

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Sorry if i could just ask a few more questions - we are drafting the letter know, is it worth the letter being reviewed by a lawyer - we have worked out that we have underpaid by GBP 127 from August - April. Would you have any specific wording we could say about this in order to re-pay the full fares + admin costs and then to settle this outside of court?

My friend has genuinely been under a lot of pressure with various different things going on in her life - is it worth mentioning this or not? My opinion is that she shouldn't as they will see it as a ploy to let her off as I imagine that many people do this. However, this is genuinely true in her case which is why i have the question?

Really appreciate everyones help so far and thanks in advance for this one

I don't think that a lawyer will add a great deal of value - and they will certainly cost you some money.

As @Hadders suggests in post #10 above, if you're prepared to put a draft of what you're planning to send up in this thread (make sure you still conceal you/your friend's personal details) then people will be able to make useful suggestions about what you're saying, and how the tone of it might be read by the railway.

 

[Haywain]

we have worked out that we have underpaid by GBP 127 from August - April. Would you have any specific wording we could say about this in order to re-pay the full fares + admin costs and then to settle this outside of court?

I think it would be better to state the number of occasions, rather than the amount you think you have underpaid by.

 

[Lyonboy]

Draft below if anyone would offer any amendments to this..

"Thank you for your letter dated xxx with reference to xxxx - I am grateful to receive this as ever since i was stopped by your colleague I have been extremely worried and anxious.

I acknowledge that on 3rd April 2024, I was stopped by your colleague for having the wrong ticket. My normal journey into work is from Syon Lane to Waterloo (if i don't via different routes), and I had only purchased a ticket from Vauxhall to Waterloo that day so I could get out the station. In reference to your letter, you mention about many similar tickets since 20th August 2023 - please see these journeys outlined below - I have regrettably done the same thing for these tickets.

I have the utmost respect for your investigation and wish to provide as much co-operation and information as possible. To this, I have calculated below the journeys to which I have acted with the most severe poor judgement and to which I am ashamed and embarrassed to detail and identify:

"""All journeys insert here - not posting on forum""""
I understand that my poor judgement has caused SWR; time, money and extra resources to look into this matter. I am not sure what the next steps in this investigation will be, but as I have outlined the journeys above where this has happened - I would presume it would be right for me to pay the full ticket price of the journeys back (which I have calculated to be GBP 233.50 (not including the incorrect tickets bought)) plus any administrative costs that you have incurred since taking the time to look into my case.

I am very keen to settle this matter without the need for court action, i recognise the mistake that i have made and really want to rectify this by covering all of the costs and then any fine you deem appropriate for me. I hope that you will consider this.

I do understand the serious repercussions of my behavior and I have learnt the strongest and most profound lessons:

• Always pay for my ticket in full - I have a responsibility when SWR is providing a service for me, I am legally required to hold the correct ticket for my journey and have paid for this in full
• If incidents like this happen, the serious repercussions this has on SWR and the knock on effects

I would like to note something, that it is not happening everytime get on the train, mixed in with these dates I have been getting the correct tickets which shows that this is not a sytemic issue. Furthermore, since being stopped by your colleague on 3rd April, I have bought the correct tickets for every journey and paid in full, I very much learnt my lesson that dayt and have been worried and extremely annoyed in myself for doing this ever since. This is a lesson that i will continually be reminded by, and will always pay for the correct ticket when travelling on SWR again in the future, as I fully understand the consequences.

If there is anymore information you need from me, please dont hesitate to get in touch.

Thanks a lot guys for your help with this - would welcome any suggestions

 

[Lyonboy]

Hi everyone - just wanted to let everyone know the results.

We had outlined every journey and highlighted the amount to which the fraud investigator thanked us for, and he had the same journeys (minus a few actually) and he thanked us for our co-operation and highlighted that most of these cases end up being out of court settlements - however its then passed onto the prosecution teams then we have just heard from the prosecution team that we have been offered an out of court settlement for the journey costs plus 150 admin fee.

Just wanted to thank everyone for their help. Moral of the story, buy the right tickets!

But any advice for future, just be honest and help the team with their investigation, they don't want to give people criminal records for the sake of it

 

[Haywain]

Thanks for letting us know.