Southeastern Provisional Prosecution - Response time

[Stuart Ingram]

Hello Everyone,

Just looking for some clarification.

Without going over the incident in too much detail, I was caught misusing my season ticket to travel an extra at Chislehurst station on 11 April and received a letter on Saturday 28 April, advising the matter had been provisionally authorised for prosecution and inviting me to comment on the incident.

I replied to the letter via recorded delivery, which was received by the SE Prosecution Office on Tuesday 1 May.

To date, 2 June, I have yet to receive any further update as to the outcome e.g. fine / prosecution / penalty fare etc. I was wondering what was the typical timescale as the chap who interviewed me at the station noted that cases tend to take 3-6 weeks and I am now past that period?

 

[221129]

Hello Everyone,

Just looking for some clarification.

Without going over the incident in too much detail, I was caught misusing my season ticket to travel an extra at Chislehurst station on 11 April and received a letter on Saturday 28 April, advising the matter had been provisionally authorised for prosecution and inviting me to comment on the incident.

I replied to the letter via recorded delivery, which was received by the SE Prosecution Office on Tuesday 1 May.

To date, 2 June, I have yet to receive any further update as to the outcome e.g. fine / prosecution / penalty fare etc. I was wondering what was the typical timescale as the chap who interviewed me at the station noted that cases tend to take 3-6 weeks and I am now past that period?

They have up to 6 months from the offence to put the papers into court.

 

[221129]

They also have no obligation to reply to your letter. It could be the next thing you hear about it is a summons.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The process of investigation may take some months. They have up to 6 months from the date of the offence to start a prosecution, and it may take a few days or even weeks after that for you to receive the Court summons if it goes to that.

You may wish to offer to settle the matter out of Court at the appropriate stage, depending on whether your career etc. would be impacted by a criminal conviction and/or criminal record (note that all railway offences are convictions for the purposes of things like ESTA and other visa-free programmes, however only more serious ones carry a criminal record).

Settling is usually also significantly less than any fine you would receive, unless your income is very low indeed, as you are typically just paying their costs (which you would be ordered to pay this on top of any fine if you were convicted), plus a certain amount of 'compensation'. You don't pay the victim surcharge either.

 

[Stuart Ingram]

Thanks.

Whilst I was apologetic in the letter, would a further letter be useful in offering to settle?

It dawned on me, whilst I was very remorseful in the letter, I didn't mention that.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks.

Whilst I was apologetic in the letter, would a further letter be useful in offering to settle?

It dawned on me, whilst I was very remorseful in the letter, I didn't mention that.

They will be wanting to know, basically, whether it was an honest mistake or a dishonest one, as well as whether you have been doing this for a longer period or if it's a one-off. The fact that you were using a season ticket may lead them to believe that you may have been doing this for a longer period and that it was dishonest. So you want to put them fully in the picture as to just how often you have been doing this. It's best to be honest here, as lying will only get you into more trouble.

If they decide that it was a one-off mistake then they are perhaps more likely to settle out of Court, and if it does proceed to Court then they may more likely proceed with a Railway Byelaw 18 prosecution - which is a strict liability offence, like speeding, but which doesn't carry a criminal record (as it's 'non-recordable').

If they think there's dishonesty or repeated evasion in question they may be less willing to settle and if they go to court they'd perhaps more likely go with a Section 5(3) Regulation of Railways Act 1889 prosecution, which means they must prove that you intended to avoid the fare; though the fine is the same as a Byelaw conviction, it carries a criminal record of dishonesty.

It would be useful to know what they said in their letter(s) so far. I'm sure the resident prosecution experts here will be happy to proofread any letter, such as an offer of settlement, you want to send. Often the best way of formulating an offer of settlement is not to specify a specific amount, but rather to offer to pay for their costs in investigating the matter, plus the fare(s) not paid, plus a reasonable amount of 'compensation'. But before sending any offers you'd be best off waiting for more knowledgeable posters than myself to give their advice.

 

[Stuart Ingram]

Thanks.

To summarise, I used my season ticket to travel an extra stop, Elmstead Woods to Chislehurst approx 10-20 times. I admitted this during the interview despite the staff member having the opnion I did so every day. I hope their systems will show my history of tapping in/out

I was honest in my letter, noting I misused my ticket out of laziness to save a few minutes on the walk home. Extremely stupid on my part and I am aware of the consequences facing me both financially and, possibly, career wise.

My concern is, as I have already replied, whether a further letter offering to settle, will do my case further harm?

 

[najaB]

...note that all railway offences are convictions for the purposes of things like ESTA and other visa-free programmes...

I've seen this said several times but I'm yet to see anything definitive. You don't happen to have an official source?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I've seen this said several times but I'm yet to see anything definitive. You don't happen to have an official source?

The ESTA application form is (almost deliberately) vague around what kind of 'crimes of moral turpitude' they want you to declare. Some argue that any crime is one of 'moral turpitude' otherwise it wouldn't be a crime! They unhelpfully add that, if you're not sure if you can qualify, you should apply for a visa. Yet attempting to, or succeeding in, entering with an ESTA when you qualify is considered a serious crime there. It's not a very simple situation and I really, really wouldn't want to mess around with the US, especially with Trump in charge.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks.

To summarise, I used my season ticket to travel an extra stop, Elmstead Woods to Chislehurst approx 10-20 times. I admitted this during the interview despite the staff member having the opnion I did so every day. I hope their systems will show my history of tapping in/out

I was honest in my letter, noting I misused my ticket out of laziness to save a few minutes on the walk home. Extremely stupid on my part and I am aware of the consequences facing me both financially and, possibly, career wise.

My concern is, as I have already replied, whether a further letter offering to settle, will do my case further harm?

Do you have a record of sometimes tapping in or out at Chislehurst, and therefore using your PAYG balance (if loaded) to extend your travelcard season?

 

[30907]

Do you have a record of sometimes tapping in or out at Chislehurst, and therefore using your PAYG balance (if loaded) to extend your travelcard season?

To save going over old ground, this thread refers
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/chance-of-criminal-record.163102/#post-3418368

 

[swt_passenger]

To save going over old ground, this thread refers
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/chance-of-criminal-record.163102/#post-3418368

Ah right. So it may not be anything to do with Oyster at all (although mentioning tapping in/out above implied it was)?