Southern on-board supervisor ticket checks

[MrJeeves]

I've overseen a rather strange scenario twice now.

First time, I saw a woman ask the OBS at Haywards Heath if she could buy a ticket on the train prior to boarding, to which the OBS said yes. After the train departed, the OBS asked where she was going, and then proceeded to say "Oh don't worry about it. It's only 15 minutes or so."

Second time, another woman was ticket checked approaching Haywards Heath from Gatwick and said, "I think I owe you some money". Presumably this was travelling beyond the ticket's validity or something similar. The OBS stared at her ticket for a good few seconds before handing it back and telling her "don't worry about it". I didn't see the full situation so it may be that the woman had a valid ticket for the journey after all.

I find this all rather strange. While I understand that staff have discretion, I would assume simple matters like this would normally be attended to. I do wonder if staff aren't too bothered about this, and more keen about people purposely avoiding fares entirely or invalid Railcard discounts, etc (though I've never had my Railcard checked while on GTR, even by RPIs).

Also, most stations on the BML have ticket barriers installed, and those that don't have more recently had On Track contract workers present checking tickets (Balcombe and Wivelsfield). Part of me wonders if some of these passengers will then be caught out from these revenue blocks in place and face penalty fares or reports for prosecution as a result.

This also fits with the general theme of flashing my smartcard at an RPI or OBS and being waved away as they trust someone who uses the railway often enough to have a smartcard is probably using it legitimately.

 

[313]

I use four Southern trains every day (all of which have an OBS onboard) and not once have i ever seen an OBS check tickets. The last time i had a ticket check on a Southern train was back in 2015 about six or seven years ago. It seems that those industrial disputes of 2016/2017/2018 was when ticket checks pretty much stopped. Even after the disputes the OBS are just not bothered about checking tickets at all. I know the OBS are supposed to check tickets but the reality is that they do not (maybe there is a very small amount that do but i have never come across them) ever check tickets. They spend the whole journey sitting down on their phone or reading a newspaper and quickly stick their head out the door at each stop before going back to their phone or newspaper. I think being an OBS on Southern has got to be one of the easiest jobs on the railway.

I have also found that when you approach OBSs to buy tickets a lot of them are not bothered to sell you one. I always notice this as well. On four separate occasions OBS have told me to travel for free because they could not be bothered to sell a ticket. On the first occasion i was told not to worry because the station i was going to did not have ticket barriers. On the second occasion i was told not to worry as i was only going four stops. On the third occasion i was told not to worry as i was only taking a ten minute journey. On the fourth occasion i was also told not to worry as the station i was going to has the ticket barriers left open late at night. These were four different OBSs here. They were not the same one. I am amazed at how many OBSs just do not care if you do not have a ticket and are happy to tell you to travel for free if you try and buy a ticket.

Honestly i think Southern Rail is the easiest TOC to fare evade on. Nobody checks tickets. I have never seen any RPIs either. In fact i am not sure that Southern Rail even have RPIs any more. I know that Thameslink and Great Northern have them but i do not think that Southern and Gatwick Express do. I believe they got rid of RPIs and converted them all to OBSs a couple years ago when those disputes were going on. I have not heard anything about RPIs returning. So it seems Southern still have no RPIs on their network.

I do find it interesting and quite odd how Southern seem to have a much more relaxed approach to ticketing than any other TOC out there. Even their sister Great Northern and Thameslink brands are not like this. But on Southern nobody cares. OBSs never check tickets and will let you travel for free. RPIs are non existent. At many Southern stations i find that even when the ticket barriers are in operation there will normally be a wide aisle barrier locked open so anyone can freely walk in and out with no ticket. I think Southern must be loosing a huge amount of money to fare evasion. I am not sure why they are so relaxed on this especially compared to other TOCs and their other brands.

 

[MrJeeves]

I do find that maybe 1 in 40 journeys on Southern result in ticket checks for me on the Brighton Mainline, which is still more than Thameslink or GX from what I've seen.

They spend the whole journey sitting down on their phone or reading a newspaper and quickly stick their head out the door at each stop before going back to their phone or newspaper.

I don't think that's completely true from what I've seen. While they can often be on their phones, most usually make live manual announcements on top of the PIS, at least showing some level of activity.

I will say that you make a good point about RPIs. Over the years I've been using GTR, I've never seen RPIs on Southern or GX.

 

[Sussex Ben]

As a frequent user of all three 'south of the river' GTR brands, I find it a sad state of affairs that my ticket is far more likely to be checked on a DOO Thameslink service than it is on a Southern service with an OBS on board. Southern's OBSs could learn a lot from their Gatwick Express counterparts, who are generally pleasant and conduct full ticket checks on the vast majority of trains (in my experience).

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Are "On Track" personnel authorised to do ticket checks?

 

[MrJeeves]

Are "On Track" personnel authorised to do ticket checks?

They are definitely at the stations I listed!

At Wivelsfield, they're usually found at the top of the stairs to the platforms, and at the ramp entrance to Platform 2. One member of staff per entry point.

They don't bother with smartcard customers, though, fitting with the standard theme

Just to clarify, this is the ONTRAK contract staff and not literally staff that work on the track.

 

[Russel]

So, if revenue protection isn't a priority for the OBS role, what exactly are they there for?

All I'm seeing is a quick win for the DFT when it comes to cost saving...

 

[Sonic1234]

GTR is probably as close to a fully gated network as you're ever going to get, so no one bothers to check elsewhere. Advance tickets and any unusual ticket types are rejected by the gates for manual checks (or rather, you get waved through if they catch a glimpse of an orange piece of paper). The number of ungated to ungated journeys possible on GTR is small.

 

[MrJeeves]

Advance tickets [...] are rejected by the gates

Not in my experience

 

[winks]

I last had my ticket checked by an OBS around 2020. I believe the frequent stops at the smaller stations out of Brighton towards Worthing etc means ticket checks don’t happen.

Also I believe Southern actually made all their RPOs redundant around 2015.

 

[Chriso]

I find these days the OBS do not bother north of Gatwick due to Oyster/contactless. I have had a few checks but there always rather close from the origin station and never repeated.

In 30 trips on the Gat Express I have seen around 2 checks. Most do walk through the train but do everything but check tickets lol, again maybe because there unable to read contactless which is a joke in itself

 

[Sonic1234]

Not in my experience

Is this a GTR run station? Most reject them, I complained to Southern about it and was told it's their policy. I do know of 3 Southern stations where they are accepted by the gates, I assume the block has never been implemented there. Southern's advances work fine if the station is run by another TOC.

 

[WizCastro197]

When I went to Eastbourne in October, they checked my ticket. Didn't care about railcard though.

 

[MrJeeves]

Is this a GTR run station? Most reject them, I complained to Southern about it and was told it's their policy. I do know of 3 Southern stations where they are accepted by the gates, I assume the block has never been implemented there. Southern's advances work fine if the station is run by another TOC.

Burgess Hill accepted them when I had a Chiltern advance up to Birmingham Moor Street.

 

[Horizon22]

OBS used to be pretty decent in the early days - there's probably a few factors in this including but not limited to:

a) a political element to prove their relevant in the midst of the bitter 2016-2018 Southern strikes
b) lots of ex-revenue staff were moved to OBS roles
c) lots of eager new recruits where placed into the role
d) a culture of good management so that staff now they are being assessed and reviewed regularly

Over time it's clear this has slipped somewhat and that standards are no longer applied so well. This could be said to be true of many railway roles sadly at the moment. The OBS concept is a decent one, if well applied.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

conduct full ticket checks on the vast majority of trains (in my experience).

Commuting on the GatEx from Brighton to London in both directions every day suggests maybe one check a week in either direction if lucky. Highly reliant on the VIC barriers presumably. Somehow I'm more likely to face a check on the Hove shuttle.

 

[MrJeeves]

Commuting on the GatEx from Brighton to London in both directions every day suggests maybe one check a week in either direction if lucky.

I usually use GatEx between Gatwick and Burgess Hill and I've not been checked yet (albeit this is about ⅓ of the Brighton to London route length).

I assume they would normally check between Gatwick and London?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I assume they would normally check between Gatwick and London?

In my very limited number of checks, the section of route appears to make no difference. Once per week is very much at the upper end of the scale of if I do get checked.

 

[sk688]

when the MK service used to run I found checks between Hemel and MK to be quite frequent

 

[Bishopstone]

My ticket is checked more often by guards on the Seaford services, than by OBS on the mainline, despite the guards also having door duties and the short distances between stops.

After the early evening, and randomly at other times, the guards retreat to the rear cab, though.

When I travel around the north, I note that frequent stops aren’t the blocker to revenue work that some southern (small s) crews assess them to be.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Personally I think the lack of checks - and this is industry wide - is a lot more down to lack of motale and enthusiasm for the role, wether safety critical (conductors/guards/train mamagets) or not (OBS) and there are multiple reasons why this has happened annd developed over a long period of time.

The industry has this top down feed feel that no one cares. Industrial relations are poor, front line staff are seeing questionable managerial decisions on a daily basis and the tools and resources needed to do the job well are steadily being taken away. CV19 restrictions, disastrous timetable changes thst havent worked, poor rolling stock design and unsuitable rolling stock have all contributed to decline in morale and with the curtent state of the "franchises" and government meddling with seemingly no forward plan to follow.

Truss's trickle down economics is certainly worling on the railway!

 

[RPI]

Personally I think the lack of checks - and this is industry wide - is a lot more down to lack of motale and enthusiasm for the role, wether safety critical (conductors/guards/train mamagets) or not (OBS) and there are multiple reasons why this has happened annd developed over a long period of time.

The industry has this top down feed feel that no one cares. Industrial relations are poor, front line staff are seeing questionable managerial decisions on a daily basis and the tools and resources needed to do the job well are steadily being taken away. CV19 restrictions, disastrous timetable changes thst havent worked, poor rolling stock design and unsuitable rolling stock have all contributed to decline in morale and with the curtent state of the "franchises" and government meddling with seemingly no forward plan to follow.

Truss's trickle down economics is certainly worling on the railway!

With the OBS role though, by being lazy and being invisible, they are ultimately proving that they could easily be done away with in the eyes of the government

 

[AlterEgo]

I've overseen a rather strange scenario twice now.

First time, I saw a woman ask the OBS at Haywards Heath if she could buy a ticket on the train prior to boarding, to which the OBS said yes. After the train departed, the OBS asked where she was going, and then proceeded to say "Oh don't worry about it. It's only 15 minutes or so."

Sounds like a Priv holder getting authority to travel from the OBS, to me.

 

[Horizon22]

Sounds like a Priv holder getting authority to travel from the OBS, to me.

Either that or a failed data connection to be able to sell the ticket.

 

[43066]

My ticket is checked more often by guards on the Seaford services, than by OBS on the mainline, despite the guards also having door duties and the short distances between stops.

After the early evening, and randomly at other times, the guards retreat to the rear cab, though.

When I travel around the north, I note that frequent stops aren’t the blocker to revenue work that some southern (small s) crews assess them to be.

This is why (in my view) keeping on board staff engaged and active in the operation of the train is better than the OBS concept. Not that that is a debate we should open up on here!

 

[ComUtoR]

The OBS concept is a decent one, if well applied.

A role that was created out of desperation and politically motivated. How then, do you apply the 'concept' of the OBS role to people who were displaced, didn't want the role, and almost exclusively see it as job protection and nothing more ?

Our OBS' do a great job but they have almost zero desire to sell you a ticket. Their colleagues get commission so they literally do a quick ticket check and nothing more.

If the role is more of a customer service one, then remove ticketing and make this more customer focussed. The OBS role kinda sits between everything. I could probably find our job description for ours but most of the OBS I see on a regular basis have always been very good and always available. They are very different to our Guards.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

With the OBS role though, by being lazy and being invisible, they are ultimately proving that they could easily be done away with in the eyes of the government

The OBS needs to be a valued and recognised role; otherwise there is no incentive and the role will be easy to phase out when the time suits

A role that was created out of desperation and politically motivated. How then, do you apply the 'concept' of the OBS role to people who were displaced, didn't want the role, and almost exclusively see it as job protection and nothing more ?

Our OBS' do a great job but they have almost zero desire to sell you a ticket. Their colleagues get commission so they literally do a quick ticket check and nothing more.

If the role is more of a customer service one, then remove ticketing and make this more customer focussed. The OBS role kinda sits between everything. I could probably find our job description for ours but most of the OBS I see on a regular basis have always been very good and always available. They are very different to our Guards.

Again, more value needs to be placed on the role; agreed that this is harder for displaced guards/conductors seeing out their time before retirement.

 

[MrJeeves]

Sounds like a Priv holder getting authority to travel from the OBS, to me.

Definitely nothing of the sort shown or stated. Was stood next to her and watched her board and chat with the OBS.

Either that or a failed data connection to be able to sell the ticket.

Not unless he knew his machine was faulty in some way as he didn't even attempt a sale. He simply asked where she was going, and immediately said don't worry about it

 

[Starmill]

when the MK service used to run I found checks between Hemel and MK to be quite frequent

These services are worked by Conductors.

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

Can OBS cover conductor work on the Watford services?