Southport - Preston Routeing

[ACS]

Hi all,

I'm new here. I've been trying to get my head round the ever-so-exciting topic of routeing

National rail enquiries will sell me an Anytime Day Return ticket from Bamber Bridge to Burscough Junction via Preston, Wigan and Burscough Bridge. Could anybody please explain to me how this is a valid route when there is a direct route from Preston to Burscough Junction?

Also am I right in thinking that it is okay to end that journey short at Burscough Bridge but remain on the train as long as I have bought a return from there to Southport. Is it okay to split tickets like that?

Obviously this split doesn't save much money but I want to know the answer to check my understanding is correct for this regular local journey of mine before I make an expensive mistake on a bigger journey

 

[yorkie]

Hi all,

I'm new here.

Welcome

I've been trying to get my head round the ever-so-exciting topic of routeing

National rail enquiries will sell me an Anytime Day Return ticket from Bamber Bridge to Burscough Junction via Preston, Wigan and Burscough Bridge. Could anybody please explain to me how this is a valid route

It might be a mapped route in the Routeing Guide. You might find the information at 3.4 Routes shown in the National Routeing Guide helpful as the Routeing Guide can be a bit complicated.

In any case, if you purchase a ticket online and obtain an itinerary, you have formed a contract. The booking confirmation showing your route is evidence of that contract. See 3.15 Routes permitted by booking engines

when there is a direct route from Preston to Burscough Junction?

The shortest route by rail is always a permitted route. See 3.3 Shortest route

Also am I right in thinking that it is okay to end that journey short at Burscough Bridge but remain on the train as long as I have bought a return from there to Southport. Is it okay to split tickets like that?

break of journey is always permitted unless it is "made clear" at the point of sale that it isn't. See 1.5 Break of journey.

You may combine two or more tickets for one journey, this is also known as "split ticketing". See 1.6 Split ticketing

Obviously this split doesn't save much money but I want to know the answer to check my understanding is correct for this regular local journey of mine before I make an expensive mistake on a bigger journey

Note that anything that saves money is subject to possibly being shut down if pricing managers (who read this forum) find out about it and if they can.

Often, they cannot do anything about it, because it's out of their hands. For example, CrossCountry have expensive fares for their long distance journeys, but they have no control over many of the intermediate fares which are set by local operators.

But if it's an anomaly that is within their control, they will generally do whatever it takes to bump up the price you pay. On some rare occasions, there is even evidence of what appears to be collusion between Train Companies when they would otherwise have been powerless to make you pay more.

 

[ACS]

Thanks for the reply. I understood that the shortest route was always valid but I was specifically enquiring about a route other than the most direct. The stations share a routing point (Preston). I understood from the routeing guide that
"If the origin and destination have a common routeing point, the permitted route is direct via the shortest distance from the origin to the destination over which a regular scheduled passenger train service operates."
I was wondering why the longer route via Wigan was valid.

Re: Break of journey/ split ticketing. I understood that they were both allowed I just wanted to check that you can combine the two. In this case that would mean ending the first journey short but not leaving the train, merely continuing with a different ticket.

Thanks for the heads up about pricing managers removing such opportunities.

 

[Merseysider]

Instead of buying a ticket from Burscough Bridge (BCB) to Southport (SOP), it is cheaper to buy one from Burscough Junction to Little Sutton, and stop short at SOP.

The National Rail Enquiries website will give you an itinerary BCJ - BCB - SOP - (Liverpool) - LTT if you enter SOP in the 'via' box. This will make the second half of your split cheaper.

 

[maniacmartin]

Unless you are on the shortest route or a diret train, you need to turn to the National Routeing Guide, published by ATOC. You can read all about it using the links yorkie posted.

Bamber Bridge has Routeing Points: Blackburn and Preston (Lancs). Preston is the Appropriate Routeing Point

Burscough Junction and Burscough Bridge both have Routeing Points:
Liverpool Group, Preston (Lancs) and Wigan Group.

The NRG instructions say this:

If the origin and destination have a common routeing point, the permitted route is direct via the
shortest distance from the origin to the destination over which a regular scheduled passenger
train service operates. No doubling back (passing through the same station twice on a single
journey) is allowed which may require customers to change trains short of the routeing point,
unless an easement allows a longer alternative route

As Preston is a common routeing point to both your origin and destination station, we shouldn't consider any other routeing points the stations may have, and you have to travel via Preston.

We also have to check the easements - but I can't see any that are relevant, not that I checked that thoroughly.

I can't work out why NRE is allowing this route. It isn't within 3 miles of the shortest route (or within 5 miles of the shortest route as determined by RJIS data), and even disregarding the common routeing point rule,
Wigan would fail the Fares Check and not be an Appropriate Routeing Point for Burscough anyway. I would definitely get a print-out from NRE of teh itinerary if you planned to travel this way.

 

[ACS]

Burscough Junction I admit may be an anomaly of no real relevance to many. However, the route from southport (or any other stations on that line) to Preston via wigan seem to be valid despite the change at burscough being the shorter route. I'm sure a fair number of people must travel that route so it would be very strange if it wasn't legit but no-one had picked up on it.

 

[Gathursty]

The line that Burscough Junction is on receives a service every 90 minutes and doesn't go late into the night nor operates on a Sunday. The 90 minute interval could cause NRE to pick a quicker route but you should double-check the price is for one ticket only and it goes without saying that NRE will route you to Burscough Bridge should you be traveling at times where there is no service.

 

[ACS]

Thanks Jake, that's mad. I don't suppose there's a public database of all fares that could be used for working out the cheapest tickets for journeys?

 

[najaB]

Thanks Jake, that's mad. I don't suppose there's a public database of all fares that could be used for working out the cheapest tickets for journeys?

There is, but I give no guarantee that it is up-to-date in all cases: www.brfares.com.

 

[AntoniC]

Or you could get the 2X bus from Preston to Southport and which does run on a Sunday.

 

[ACS]

I do on occasions. The bus ticket is cheaper than the train ticket. Am I mistaken in recalling that train tickets are (or were) valid on the bus between Preston and Southport for some obscure reason?

 

[Merseysider]

I do on occasions. The bus ticket is cheaper than the train ticket. Am I mistaken in recalling that train tickets are (or were) valid on the bus between Preston and Southport for some obscure reason?

According to this thread they were. As for the present day, it may be worth tweeting Stagecoach.

 

[ACS]

Cheers for that. I was just interested because I think I recalled a little footnote in a timetable a few years back.

If I get the bus I get a bus ticket anyway as it is cheaper. If I am with my bike or going to my friends' in Scarisbrick rather than Southport proper I need to catch the train. Hence my original query.