Speeding Fine

[Bald Rick]

I've actually got two postal deliveries until my licence is completely clear, as there were two camera flashes on the M3 as I went past a gantry, but I'm pretty sure that was for someone going tother way, as the limit was coming down for the closure at J3 - anyway, I was under the trigger speed!

On Motorways the static cameras only work for one carriageway and take pictures from behind you. If the flash was in front of you, and from the other carriageway, it was for the other direction

I've done three speed awareness courses in the last four years,

Thats interesting, as I was under the impression that once you have had one speed awareness course, you would not be offered another one for three years from the date of the original offence.

 

[GS250]

I went to a speed awareness course expecting an argument. I came out more educated on road safety and more humble about my own driving ability.

 

[OscarH]

Thats interesting, as I was under the impression that once you have had one speed awareness course, you would not be offered another one for three years from the date of the original offence.

That was always my impression, but I know a few people that have done multiple in that time frame

 

[jfollows]

Thats interesting, as I was under the impression that once you have had one speed awareness course, you would not be offered another one for three years from the date of the original offence.

There’s more than one type of course, so you can’t attend the same course within three years but you can attend a different one. The earlier poster said that the middle course was specifically for “smart motorways” and the other two were longer than three years apart.

 

[AlterEgo]

I went to a speed awareness course expecting an argument. I came out more educated on road safety and more humble about my own driving ability.

I’m sure I said so elsewhere but in my opinion it should form part of the theory test. It’s really valuable and made me a better driver.

 

[typefish]

I’m sure I said so elsewhere but in my opinion it should form part of the theory test. It’s really valuable and made me a better driver.

I've not been on a speeding awareness course - but I've been on a "youth driver improvement day" - the local council funded a skid pan day and I decided I wanted in on that - and having speaking to people who attended the theory session, I got the feeling that session was basically a speeding awareness course without bribing diverting money to the Chief Constable for the privilege.

I didn't learn anything that day I didn't already know, but I could tell that for some people, it was an eye opener. There are well and truly some ignorant drivers out there.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I didn't learn anything that day I didn't already know, but I could tell that for some people, it was an eye opener. There are well and truly some ignorant drivers out there.

No doubt. You sometimes wonder how they ever passed a driving test. Any examples you can recall from the course as to just how wrong some drivers apparently are?

 

[dangie]

As it was me who began this thread I’ll chip in again.

Just returned from a week’s holiday in South Wales. From my home in the Midlands rather than use the motorways we used both ‘A & B’ roads to get there and back. That of course meant passing through many Welsh town’s & villages with 20mph speed limits.

This was ok for the most part. A bit inconsistent though, I believe whether it’s 20 or 30 is to do with spacing of lamp posts? However, what I found most difficult was when pulling away from standstill e.g. junctions or traffic lights etc. Just simply going up through the gears 1-2-3 meant you were doing 30mph without realising it. I suppose you would soon get used to it, but for an infrequent visitor you need to be careful.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I have an medium size auto and it (I) struggle to maintain 20mph a lot of the time in "Sadiq's" land. It's terrible but although I know what 20mph "feels like", I still find myself checking the speedo when it's safe to do so.

Are there out-of-town 20 zones in Wales?

 

[MotCO]

I have an medium size auto and it (I) struggle to maintain 20mph a lot of the time in "Sadiq's" land. It's terrible but although I know what 20mph "feels like", I still find myself checking the speedo when it's safe to do so.

Are there out-of-town 20 zones in Wales?

So you're spending more time looking at your speedo rather than the road ahead? That sounds like a good idea to improve road safety ☹️

 

[Islineclear3_1]

So you're spending more time looking at your speedo rather than the road ahead? That sounds like a good idea to improve road safety ☹️

I knew it wouldn't be long

If you care to read my post properly, I said when it's safe to do so

 

[MotCO]

I knew it wouldn't be long

If you care to read my post properly, I said when it's safe to do so

Point taken, but even when it is 'safe', things can happen in that split second. The point I am making is that you are more likely to keep scanning your speedo in a 20 mph zone than say in a 30 or 40 mph zone which inherently makes it less safe.

 

[dangie]

..... I came out more educated on road safety and more humble about my own driving ability.

So did I. Those who say they never learnt anything should firstly question themselves on why they were there.

 

[Bald Rick]

So did I. Those who say they never learnt anything should firstly question themselves on why they were there.

I learned precisely nothing on the speed awareness course I attended, other than how ignorant most of the others on the course were.

 

[dangie]

I learned precisely nothing on the speed awareness course I attended, other than how ignorant most of the others on the course were.

Not even to try and stick to speed limits?

 

[Enthusiast]

There’s more than one type of course, ...

There are now only two offered for speeding offences:

- the National Motorway Awareness Course. This is usually offered to drivers exceeding variable speed limits on motorways.

- the National Sped Awareness Course. Usually offered for all other speeding offences.

All forces in England & Wales say they adhere to the NPCC's guidance which says enforcement should begin at (Limit + 10% +2mph) and courses are offered up to (Limit + 10% +9mph). There used to be other courses. Two I can think of are one for 20mph transgressions and one for ordinary motorway infringements. These have been discontinued.

These courses are offered by UKROEd (UK Road Offender Education). Dorset Constabulary does not participate in the national scheme. This means That courses done in Dorset do not count under the "three year" rule (only one course of each type will be offered within three years with offence dates used to calculated that period) and if you have already done a course elsewhere you can still do one for offences in Dorset. Courses are not offered in Scotland.

 

[Bald Rick]

Not even to try and stick to speed limits?

I‘ve known that for 50 years.

 

[dangie]

I‘ve known that for 50 years.

We both knew it, we just didn’t do it

 

[jfollows]

No doubt. You sometimes wonder how they ever passed a driving test. Any examples you can recall from the course as to just how wrong some drivers apparently are?

I think it's mainly thoughtlessness, carelessness and not paying attention, maybe that's an obvious thing to say.
On my course I was in the distinct minority of knowing both my speed and the limit at the time of my transgression. Many there couldn't identify the correct speed limit from road examples, and/or didn't know what speed they were doing when they exceeded the limit.
I mean, almost being run down at a pedestrian crossing by a little old lady too interested in talking to her companion to pay attention to the red light, that's the main type of problem in my opinion, and so the courses are an attempt to make drivers think more and pay more attention.
For those of us who say we don't learn anything from them, I would counter that a period of reflection on why we're there and what we can do to change our bad habits is useful. So different people take away different lessons from the courses, most of it useful, I certainly didn't find it a total waste of my time.
Given my driving record, I'm obviously not a good driver, but I have both good and bad habits, so trying to eliminate the latter has improved my driving, and the course helped with this.

 

[507 001]

I did a speed awareness course on zoom during COVID for 37 in a 30.

It was the most pointless and irritating 2 hours of my life.

I gave up listening when the instructor told us that the main reason to not brake check people was that you might get stabbed.

I’d honestly rather have the points than sit through that complete and utter nonsense next time.

 

[GS250]

I did a speed awareness course on zoom during COVID for 37 in a 30.

It was the most pointless and irritating 2 hours of my life.

I gave up listening when the instructor told us that the main reason to not brake check people was that you might get stabbed.

I’d honestly rather have the points than sit through that complete and utter nonsense next time.

Both the ones I went on were actually very good. I rated my driving skills as 8/10 when asked by the instructor early on. I reduced this to 4/10 just before the course ended having realised how little I actually knew about driving, safety and road markings etch

 

[Lucan]

So did I. Those who say they never learnt anything should firstly question themselves on why they were there.

That question is easily answered - I was there because a previous 30 mph stretch (through open fields) had been reduced to 20 since I last drove it, with poor signage. I was actually doing 26.

I learned precisely nothing on the speed awareness course I attended

I learned nothing either. In fact I taught the instructor something - that at 20mph it takes 3 minutes to do a mile, not 2 minutes as he thought. He did not take his new-found knowledge in good humour though and I was threatened with being thrown out. That was the only interesting thing that happened.

 

[bramling]

Both times Ive been stopped on a speed gun, I have been suitably humble and apologetic and the officers concerned have said words to the effect: “I need a reading for three seconds, and I only got two so be on your way and don’t do it again sonny” (both incidents happened over 25 years ago when I could pass for “sonny” )

I know someone who got stopped doing something ridiculous like 60 in a 30 limit, late at night on a suburban London street. The police officer was sufficiently shocked to find it was someone in their 60s (as well as a train driver) driving that he was let off.

 

[Titfield]

I did a speed awareness course on zoom during COVID for 37 in a 30.

It was the most pointless and irritating 2 hours of my life.

I gave up listening when the instructor told us that the main reason to not brake check people was that you might get stabbed.

I’d honestly rather have the points than sit through that complete and utter nonsense next time.

pointless? - no financial benefit to you then?

 

[507 001]

pointless? - no financial benefit to you then?

About £10 in terms of the actual ‘fine’. Not sure what difference it would have made to insurance but I already pay a ludicrous amount for my insurance anyway (for no apparent reason).

But honestly, 2 hours of sitting listening to a man giving out out of date facts and figures and then telling me that brake checking is a bad idea because you might get stabbed? At no point did he actually mention the real reasons why brake checking is a bad idea.

The cost to my time and sanity alone wasn’t worth it.

 

[jfollows]

This was ok for the most part. A bit inconsistent though, I believe whether it’s 20 or 30 is to do with spacing of lamp posts? However, what I found most difficult was when pulling away from standstill e.g. junctions or traffic lights etc. Just simply going up through the gears 1-2-3 meant you were doing 30mph without realising it. I suppose you would soon get used to it, but for an infrequent visitor you need to be careful.

I think - not quite. A “restricted road” is one in which a street lighting system with lights 200 yards or fewer apart exists. The speed limit on such a road was 30mph, but legislation (eg https://senedd.wales/media/fo3ibze5/sub-ld15187-em-e.pdf) has changed this limit by default to 20mph in Wales. Commencement and terminal signs indicating 20mph are required, replacing the former 30mph ones. But if you’re unsure, and there are lamp posts, then it’s 20mph.
If the limit is actually 30mph, and some of these exist, then there can be repeater signs (eg on the same lamp posts) whereas if the limit is 20mph repeater signs are not allowed. In the past, 30mph repeaters were not allowed, as is still the case in England. But 20mph repeater signs used to be allowed, so now have to be removed over time.
EDIT If you don’t know whether you’re in Wales or England, which is entirely possible, this means there is definite scope for confusion.
See also https://www.gov.wales/sites/default...oduction-of-the-default-20mph-speed-limit.pdf
Existing 20mph repeater signs have to be removed by 17/9/24 and 20mph road markings by 17/9/28. So there is further potential confusion during this transition period. However any signs or road markings indicating a 30mph limit which has changed to 20mph have to be removed immediately.

 

[PeterC]

EDIT If you don’t know whether you’re in Wales or England, which is entirely possible, this means there is definite scope for confusion.

It's easy to lose track on roads that zigzag across the border. You will need to be careful to read signs rather than assume that they always say 30 like they did last time you were there.

I just hope that we don't get a different NSL in future. That would be confusing

 

[Elecman]

Does anyone know On managed (smart??) motorways what is the time delay between the signs changing to a Lower speed and the associated cameras on the same gantry changing setting to the lower speed ( ie NSL to either 60 or 50)?

 

[jfollows]

Does anyone know On managed (smart??) motorways what is the time delay between the signs changing to a Lower speed and the associated cameras on the same gantry changing setting to the lower speed ( ie NSL to either 60 or 50)?

Post 102 above?
10 seconds by law but 60 seconds in implementation, in probability, unless things have changed since the FOI response from Highways England in that post. Certainly it will always be longer than 10 seconds. Don’t slam on your brakes if you see them change.

 

[joebassman]

I've had 3 points for 70 in a 60 on the A5 near Shrewsbury, then 3 points for >80 on the M6 north of Preston, then a course for 57 in a 50 between Buxton and Congleton. Interestingly (to me) the majority of people on my course - and here - are for 30mph infractions. I think the cameras enforce penalties which would never have been enforced by the police beforehand.
I don't complain, in all cases I knew the limit and I knew the speed I was doing. In a lot of the 30mph cases people either don't know the limit or don't think at the time.
I used to drive at 95mph on motorways in the 1980s and 1990s, and knew I wouldn't get caught unless I overtook a police car. I now stick to about 80mph indicated (on my speedometer) maximum. It's probably better for me and for everyone else that I do!

You are possibly correct about the cameras enforcing more. I got pulled over for doing 40 in a 30 at 1am after driving back from playing a gig. I was let off after being breathalysed. It was a country road with little housing.