Split ticket rules and making connections, Huddersfield to Glasgow (or Manchester to Glasgow) return

[Overthetops]

I stumbled across the forum today while trying to book rail tickets to Glasgow - thanks to all who contribute to this excellent resource! I have spent a couple of hours searching through previous posts, but thought it best to post my own thread to make absolutely sure I have correct and up to date info.

My other half and I are planning a return rail trip to Glasgow to see a couple of concerts in the Celtic Connections music festival - departing either from Huddersfield (our local station) or Manchester Piccadilly (we could drive over there and park at a relative's place and get a local train or tram in). Planned dates Weds 31st January, returning Sat 3rd Feb 2024. I've been looking at a couple of ticketing sites, Trainline and Trainsplit (but I'm now aware of the tickets site associated with the forum so will look again there!). Prices for two return adult tickets using our Two Together railcard obviously show substantial savings when using the "split save" option (and we've bought these before) but due to the length of the journey and the fact that we don't want to miss the concert on the day we travel up to Glasgow, I'm a bit nervous about things possibly going wrong.

• Split tickets and missed connections - my main question is, do you definitely have the right to take the next train by the same operator, if your booked train is cancelled or more likely, if your first train is delayed meaning you miss your connection?
• Connection times - some of the options I'm looking at quote 10 minute connection times at Man Picc or Preston which seems a little tight - but from my searches on here, it seems that we'd be covered (ie allowed on the next train by same operator) as long as ensuring that min connection times are adhered to, and any legit ticket site selling split tickets would ensure that?
• Assuming that the consensus IS that we would be allowed on next train rather than forced to buy an additional ticket, should I therefore ensure we travel a bit earlier in the day to make sure there IS a next train (for instance there's a great fare on the TPE 13.21 from Man Picc (arr Glasgow 16.39). Although that doesn't seem particularly late in the day, on the TPE timetable, it looks like there isn't a later one by that train co! (their later afternoon trains to Scotland go to Edinburgh rather than Glasgow)
• Would you advise avoiding TransPennine Express completely anyway these days?
• Would you advise that we take the option of driving to Manchester and travelling by train to Glasgow from there, rather than starting out by train from Huddersfield, given the current woeful state of affairs in terms of high volume of cancellations out of Hudds?

Thanks for any insights and advice!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Overthetops. Welcome to the forum.

Are you looking for a degree of flexibility on your journey(s), as regards train operators, journey departure times, etc., or are you looking for relatively inflexible, booked journey only, TOC specific, rock bottom pricing?

As regards the 1321 midweek TPE departure from Manchester Piccadilly, arrive Glasgow Central at 1639, you can also arrive at Glasgow Central later at 1951, having left Manchester Piccadilly at 1421, and changing at Preston, still travelling with TPE, but with a rather lengthy wait time there.

P.S. Just to advise that minimum connection times when changing trains are 10 minutes at Manchester Piccadilly and 8 minutes at Preston.

 

[30907]

Yes, you may take the next train covered by your ticket (TPE, Avanti or...).

Depending on your location in Hudds, another option might be to use Northern's Halifax-Hebden Br-Preston service to connect.

 

[_toommm_]

Split tickets and missed connections - my main question is, do you definitely have the right to take the next train by the same operator, if your booked train is cancelled or more likely, if your first train is delayed meaning you miss your connection?

100% you have the right. A very small minority of traincrew will argue you don't, but it's covered in the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT) under condition 14.2

Connection times - some of the options I'm looking at quote 10 minute connection times at Man Picc or Preston which seems a little tight - but from my searches on here, it seems that we'd be covered (ie allowed on the next train by same operator) as long as ensuring that min connection times are adhered to, and any legit ticket site selling split tickets would ensure that?

Ten minutes can be tight at Piccadilly if you're connecting off a service from Huddersfield that usually goes into platform one, with the West Coast services leaving from platform fourteen. Personally I'd use the footbridge on the platforms as it avoids the barriers on platform one, and avoids the rather slow check by the Northern staff to get to the travelators to thirteen and fourteen.

Assuming that the consensus IS that we would be allowed on next train rather than forced to buy an additional ticket, should I therefore ensure we travel a bit earlier in the day to make sure there IS a next train (for instance there's a great fare on the TPE 13.21 from Man Picc (arr Glasgow 16.39). Although that doesn't seem particularly late in the day, on the TPE timetable, it looks like there isn't a later one by that train co! (their later afternoon trains to Scotland go to Edinburgh rather than Glasgow)

I am more than happy to travel later as I''m confident in my rights in getting a taxi or hotel. Just two weeks ago I got a taxi from Manchester to Leeds at 1:30am on Sunday. If your journey is time-critical, or you don't want the added stress (which is understandable) then I would travel with some leeway.

Would you advise avoiding TransPennine Express completely anyway these days?

They're not too bad. If they cancel a West Coast service, they'll often arrange ticket acceptance with Northern and Avanti. Whilst the trains are short, the big windows and airy atmosphere on the Class 397s that run to Edinburgh and Glasgow is pretty nice.

Would you advise that we take the option of driving to Manchester and travelling by train to Glasgow from there, rather than starting out by train from Huddersfield, given the current woeful state of affairs in terms of high volume of cancellations out of Hudds?

Entirely up to you, but a journey like this based solely on TPE, I would drive to Manchester if I was in that position, parking wasn't an issue, and I could drive.

 

[wellhouse]

On Trainsplit and The Forum Ticketing site, Advanced Options allow you to specify extended connecting times, stations to pass through and/or change at, and you can select operators to include or exclude, so that even with Advance Fares, you have a degree of control over your schedule.

If you are not familiar with Split Ticketing, just be aware that you may be offered a combination of Anytime, Off-Peak, and Advance tickets, some of which are Operator specific, so carefully check each ticket to be sure you understand all the restrictions.

 

[Overthetops]

@Overthetops. Welcome to the forum.

Are you looking for a degree of flexibility on your journey(s), as regards train operators, journey departure times, etc., or are you looking for relatively inflexible, booked journey only, TOC specific, rock bottom pricing?

As regards the 1321 midweek TPE departure from Manchester Piccadilly, arrive Glasgow Central at 1639, you can also arrive at Glasgow Central later at 1951, having left Manchester Piccadilly at 1421, and changing at Preston, still travelling with TPE, but with a rather lengthy wait time there.

P.S. Just to advise that minimum connection times when changing trains are 10 minutes at Manchester Piccadilly and 8 minutes at Preston.

Thank you @Mcr Warrior

I think we're looking for reasonable fares but a bit of flexibility rather than totally rock bottom fares. Thanks for the info about the later TPE journey to Glasgow - unfortunately that would mean we'd miss the Weds night concert, so I think if I want a bit of leeway I'll need to book a bit earlier in the day and pay more. The return journey isn't so critical, it doesn't really matter if we have delays (although I'd rather not, obvs!).

Yes, you may take the next train covered by your ticket (TPE, Avanti or...).

Depending on your location in Hudds, another option might be to use Northern's Halifax-Hebden Br-Preston service to connect.

Thanks @30907 - that's good to know.

100% you have the right. A very small minority of traincrew will argue you don't, but it's covered in the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT) under condition 14.2



Ten minutes can be tight at Piccadilly if you're connecting off a service from Huddersfield that usually goes into platform one, with the West Coast services leaving from platform fourteen. Personally I'd use the footbridge on the platforms as it avoids the barriers on platform one, and avoids the rather slow check by the Northern staff to get to the travelators to thirteen and fourteen.



I am more than happy to travel later as I''m confident in my rights in getting a taxi or hotel. Just two weeks ago I got a taxi from Manchester to Leeds at 1:30am on Sunday. If your journey is time-critical, or you don't want the added stress (which is understandable) then I would travel with some leeway.



They're not too bad. If they cancel a West Coast service, they'll often arrange ticket acceptance with Northern and Avanti. Whilst the trains are short, the big windows and airy atmosphere on the Class 397s that run to Edinburgh and Glasgow is pretty nice.



Entirely up to you, but a journey like this based solely on TPE, I would drive to Manchester if I was in that position, parking wasn't an issue, and I could drive.

Thanks @_toommm_ for this very thorough reply, much appreciated. I am familiar with Piccadilly and I know what you mean about going via the footbridge. Our outward journey will be time critical to make sure we get there in time for Weds night concert, so I probably need to build in some wiggle room. Thanks for the feedback re: TPE, and the thoughts re: driving to Manchester vs train all the way from Hudds.

On Trainsplit and The Forum Ticketing site, Advanced Options allow you to specify extended connecting times, stations to pass through and/or change at, and you can select operators to include or exclude, so that even with Advance Fares, you have a degree of control over your schedule.

If you are not familiar with Split Ticketing, just be aware that you may be offered a combination of Anytime, Off-Peak, and Advance tickets, some of which are Operator specific, so carefully check each ticket to be sure you understand all the restrictions.

Thanks for this extra info @wellhouse - very useful.

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to reply, and it's very reassuring to know that we'll still be covered for onward travel if we miss the connection/s. I'll probably take another look and choose journeys with a bit more changeover time though, even for a few quid more.

Happy New Year!