Steam railtours which don't usually have diesel attached to the rear

[peteb]

I love a mainline steam trip but so often there's a diesel tagged on the rear, either as a contingency or to provide assistance.

I've just seen a video shot this week of The Dalesman York to Carlisle which was steam hauled with no diesel attached on the return leg as far as Hellifield.

Are there any other semi-regular steam trips which don't as a rule have a diesel on the back?

 

[Wynd]

Not 100%, but I'm fairly sure Tornado has often hauled the Aberdonian unassisted.

It will be interesting to see what the traction is on the first two this year, and if it is unassisted.

 

[andy35554]

This sunday 16th July, Liverpool to Holyhead and back will be unassisted

 

[Amlag]

Generally David Smith‘s West Coast Rly operated trains seem to have more confidence in their steam locos than some other operators, and don’t run with a Diesel tagged on the rear unless there is a very good reason.

 

[Alanko]

Not 100%, but I'm fairly sure Tornado has often hauled the Aberdonian unassisted.

It will be interesting to see what the traction is on the first two this year, and if it is unassisted.

Indeed it has, which makes a pleasant contrast to seeing a WCR 47 taking up the rear!

The little skeptic in my head always wonders if the 47 is providing more than hotel power and a get-out-of-jail-free card when it rumbles past behind a steam loco with 'ten on' or similar, barely breaking into a sweat.

 

[Dave S 56F]

try W.C.R.C. the pendle dalesman from Lancaster via Preston Blackburn Clitheroe to Carlisle ret via the same route usually no tailgunner unless there's a extreme heatwave. or the W.C.R.C.
Scarborough spa express from Carnforth via Skipton Keighley Shipley and Woodlesford and Church Fenton ret same route usually as well no tailgunner. Besides the Dalesmans like mentioned above. Some railway touring Co tours also west coast rolling stock users sometimes run unassisted without a oilcan assist on the rear. Vintage trains run their steam hauled Shakespeare trains from Birmingham snow Hill 30 miles each way to Stratford on Avon either with 7029 Clun castle or 5043 Earl of mount Edgcumbe unassisted without a rear oilcan tailgunner unless once again there is extreme hot weather. The A1 steam loco trust with tornado depending on who's carriage T.O.C. is used like S.R.P.S usually or W.C.R. stock try to avoid taking a diesel unless its used for a turning move or shunting. Saphos or steam dreams pathfinders use a diesel to power the M.K.3 coaches and air con and central door locks they take on their carriages with using hoskins L.S.L. stock always. (Best to worst company from top of my page to bottom in my opinion)

 

[341o2]

I've never seen a diesel on the rear of a train hauled by Flying Scotsman.
There are three journeys scheduled for the Dorset Coast Express, the first 28th July to Weymouth, where the Swanage Railway's 31806 will replace the usual diesel at the rear, to haul the train from Weymouth to Southampton

 

[Alanko]

I've never seen a diesel on the rear of a train hauled by Flying Scotsman.
There are three journeys scheduled for the Dorset Coast Express, the first 28th July to Weymouth, where the Swanage Railway's 31806 will replace the usual diesel at the rear, to haul the train from Weymouth to Southampton

I saw Flying Scotsman back on the third of this month with 47812 on the rear.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

West Coast Railways policy for some time has been for diesel assistance on virtually everything, but for the last few weeks this now seems to have been reversed and an increasing number of tours are running unassisted. I wonder what has caused this volte-face?

 

[father_jack]

Seems to be a shortage of generator vans across the whole railtour industry.

 

[JKF]

I think there have been some tours where a diesel follows the tour separately, to act as a thunderbird if needed but without ‘spoiling the view’ for kettle fans. Though that might just be a light engine move to take over at a later stage or retrieve stock, and I might be speculating about the thunderbird purpose.

 

[blackfive460]

I wonder what has caused this volte-face?

Rain...

 

[Deepgreen]

A diesel will usually be provided more often for shunting moves en route than insurance or extra traction (except in autumn), and hotel power, of course. Trips which require neither of these stand a good chance of being steam-only, but these will always be the minority.

 

[Dave S 56F]

in my experience this year on railtours commencing in January I usually do 2 a month mainline tours only 2 vintage trains Shakespeare express trains I've had without a diesel and the Scarborough spa W.C.R.C. And on on 6 July no diesel from Carnforth via Castleford with royal scot 46115 Scots Guardsman.

 

[DoubleD55]

Yesterday on the Cumbrian Mountain Express, Galatea worked the steam legs from Carnforth to Carlisle and back from Carlisle to Preston unassisted

 

[Sun Chariot]

I've never seen a diesel on the rear of a train hauled by Flying Scotsman.

As Alanko mentions,.60103 has had WCRC diesel at the rear, on its centenary tours. It was a WCRC 47 at the rear, for Scotsman's visit to Portsmouth in June:

Steam to South Hampshire

Hello - does any forum reader know more on B1 61306 "Mayflower" trip down to Portsmouth on 31st May? Realtime showed it aa Shoeburyness to Portsmouth, arriving Pompey just before noon; returning that eve. Here's it passing Havant on its return eastwards. I looked on Steam Dreams site but I...

www.railforums.co.uk

Post #28 in this thread, you can just see the WCRC Duff cab emerging behind trees, on the third photo (I was deliberately taking shots which "hid" the diesel!)

 

[Iskra]

try W.C.R.C. the pendle dalesman from Lancaster via Preston Blackburn Clitheroe to Carlisle ret via the same route usually no tailgunner unless there's a extreme heatwave. or the W.C.R.C.
Scarborough spa express from Carnforth via Skipton Keighley Shipley and Woodlesford and Church Fenton ret same route usually as well no tailgunner. Besides the Dalesmans like mentioned above. Some railway touring Co tours also west coast rolling stock users sometimes run unassisted without a oilcan assist on the rear. Vintage trains run their steam hauled Shakespeare trains from Birmingham snow Hill 30 miles each way to Stratford on Avon either with 7029 Clun castle or 5043 Earl of mount Edgcumbe unassisted without a rear oilcan tailgunner unless once again there is extreme hot weather. The A1 steam loco trust with tornado depending on who's carriage T.O.C. is used like S.R.P.S usually or W.C.R. stock try to avoid taking a diesel unless its used for a turning move or shunting. Saphos or steam dreams pathfinders use a diesel to power the M.K.3 coaches and air con and central door locks they take on their carriages with using hoskins L.S.L. stock always. (Best to worst company from top of my page to bottom in my opinion)

These have always had a diesel on them when I’ve done them. Primarily to assist with turning at Carlisle.

 

[341o2]

S

As Alanko mentions,.60103 has had WCRC diesel at the rear, on its centenary tours. It was a WCRC 47 at the rear, for Scotsman's visit to Portsmouth in June:

Steam to South Hampshire

Hello - does any forum reader know more on B1 61306 "Mayflower" trip down to Portsmouth on 31st May? Realtime showed it aa Shoeburyness to Portsmouth, arriving Pompey just before noon; returning that eve. Here's it passing Havant on its return eastwards. I looked on Steam Dreams site but I...

www.railforums.co.uk

Post #28 in this thread, you can just see the WCRC Duff cab emerging behind trees, on the third photo (I was deliberately taking shots which "hid" the diesel!)

Scotsman didn't have an assisting diesel when it last visited the Swanage railway, or when it visited Salisbury pre Covid, which is when I last saw it. Haven't followed the centenary tours

 

[Future]

I think there have been some tours where a diesel follows the tour separately, to act as a thunderbird if needed but without ‘spoiling the view’ for kettle fans. Though that might just be a light engine move to take over at a later stage or retrieve stock, and I might be speculating about the thunderbird purpose.

The Royal Duchy will always have a duff running about 10-15 minutes ahead of the main attraction as a sort of thunderbird. It even came in handy once when 6233’s baffle plate fell into the firebox and it barely made it over the Devon banks!

As Alanko mentions,.60103 has had WCRC diesel at the rear, on its centenary tours. It was a WCRC 47 at the rear, for Scotsman's visit to Portsmouth in June:

Unassisted on its visit to Cornwall a few months ago (my photo of it tackling St Germans bank: https://flic.kr/p/2ox2CYf)

 

[cce]

Unassisted on its visit to Cornwall a few months ago (my photo of it tackling St Germans bank: https://flic.kr/p/2ox2CYf)

i thought Mk1s had to be "boxed in" by more modern stock/a loco these days? - this would have made it to the list below if i hadnt seen this picture

a number of suggestions come to my mind as to why it's so

• heating and cooling aircon coaches
• operational convenience (most diesel hauled trains are T&T now as well) due to removal of infra related to loco release
• quick rescue on a busy modern railway that may not have a suitable loco for 100 miles in any direction

 

[Iskra]

i thought Mk1s had to be "boxed in" by more modern stock/a loco these days? - this would have made it to the list below if i hadnt seen this picture

a number of suggestions come to my mind as to why it's so

• heating and cooling aircon coaches
• operational convenience (most diesel hauled trains are T&T now as well) due to removal of infra related to loco release
• quick rescue on a busy modern railway that may not have a suitable loco for 100 miles in any direction

I think it only counts if there are passengers in them. So you could have a rake of Mk1 stock but with a non-passenger carrying Mk1 at the end and that would be fine.

 

[markindurham]

The Jacobite operations don't usually have diesels involved either - including the shunts at Fort Bill...

 

[Deepgreen]

i thought Mk1s had to be "boxed in" by more modern stock/a loco these days? - this would have made it to the list below if i hadnt seen this picture

a number of suggestions come to my mind as to why it's so

• heating and cooling aircon coaches
• operational convenience (most diesel hauled trains are T&T now as well) due to removal of infra related to loco release
• quick rescue on a busy modern railway that may not have a suitable loco for 100 miles in any direction

Not the case. Many locos used have a mk1 support coach and the last vehicle can be a mk1 with no rear loco.

 

[peteb]

This sunday 16th July, Liverpool to Holyhead and back will be unassisted

So it is, and great to see Leander leaving Liverpool Lime Street up the bank with nothing on the rear!!

 

[Sun Chariot]

So it is, and great to see Leander leaving Liverpool Lime Street up the bank with nothing on the rear!!

Lovely! I've checked YouTube but I don't yet see any videos. I'll keep looking - I'd love.to hear its 3-cylinder beat off the cutting walls

 

[Mike Machin]

I've never seen a diesel on the rear of a train hauled by Flying Scotsman.
There are three journeys scheduled for the Dorset Coast Express, the first 28th July to Weymouth, where the Swanage Railway's 31806 will replace the usual diesel at the rear, to haul the train from Weymouth to Southampton

There was a 47 rumbling away tacked onto the rear of Flying Scotsman’s excursion to Portsmouth last month, at least on the return leg of the journey when it passed by me at Cosham.

 

[Sun Chariot]

There was a 47 rumbling away tacked onto the rear of Flying Scotsman’s excursion to Portsmouth last month, at least on the return leg of the journey when it passed by me at Cosham.

Yes, the WCRC Duff was on the outward leg, too. Deliberately not visible in this photo at Portcreek Junction; but it was at the rear.

Also on the rear of Mayflower's Pompey visit, earlier in that month.

 

[Alanko]

Seems to be a shortage of generator vans across the whole railtour industry.

Far more prevalent on Irish railways, historically? Anything over here would necessitate the conversion of an existing carriage for the purpose?

 

[infobleep]

Have any rail tours used steam engines at the back to help them instead of a diesel?

 

[Alanko]

Have any rail tours used steam engines at the back to help them instead of a diesel?

I have never seen or read of this done on a mainline rail tour. I've seen it done in preserved railways with industrial locos.