Storm Bert Saturday 23rd November

[12LDA28C]

Avanti are advising potential passengers 'not to travel' north of Preston tomorrow due to Storm 'Bert'....

Train Travel Information | Avanti West Coast

For train timetables and train updates, visit Avanti West Coast online today and stay up to date with travel information for your journey. Find out more.

www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk

We’re advising customers not to travel north of Preston on Saturday 23 November due to the disruption expected from Storm Bert. Our destinations north of Preston include Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, Carlisle, Glasgow and Edinburgh. If you were due to travel on this route, your existing ticket can now be used anytime from Friday 22 November to the end of service on Monday 25 November.

Elsewhere in the UK, there's still a risk of disruption to your journey because of the weather warnings this weekend. We strongly recommend you plan ahead, allow extra time for your journey, and check before you travel at the link below.

If your train is delayed or cancelled due to Storm Bert and you abandoned your journey as a result, you can claim a fee-free refund from where you bought your ticket. If you continued with your journey but were delayed by 15 minutes or more, you can claim Delay Repay compensation.

 

[yorksrob]

Avanti are advising potential passengers 'not to travel' north of Preston tomorrow due to Storm 'Bert'....

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Considering the buggers haven't provided my delay repay from the last time their service ground to a halt, sod them.

 

[zwk500]

Fits with Police Scotland Advice not to use the roads:

Storm Bert: Police warn against road travel on Saturday

Yellow weather warnings for heavy snow are in place for much of Scotland on Saturday.

www.bbc.co.uk

Police are urging people not to travel on Scotland's roads on Saturday as Storm Bert looks set to bring more heavy snowfall across the country.
Police Scotland's warning covers all roads north of the central belt.
Supt Vinnie Fisher, deputy head of road policing, said: “All road users should consider if they really need to travel in adverse weather...

There are yellow warnings for wind, rain, snow and ice across northern England and Scotland, with an amber warning north of Perth:

UK weather warnings

Met Office UK weather warnings for rain, wind, snow, ice, fog, thunderstorm, lightning and extreme heat.

www.metoffice.gov.uk

Storm Bert will bring a spell of heavy snow, leading to some disruption on Saturday​

What should I expect?​

• Travel delays on roads are likely, stranding some vehicles and passengers
• Power cuts are likely and other services, such as mobile phone coverage, may be affected
• There is a good chance that some rural communities could become cut off
• Some delays and cancellations to rail travel are likely
• Untreated pavements and cycle paths likely to be impassable
• Injuries from slips and falls are likely on icy surfaces

Is it defeatist or sensible to try and warn people to rearrange travel in potentially dangerous conditions? There's been at least one thread in the last couple of days about somebody slipping on an icy platform.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Avanti are advising potential passengers 'not to travel' north of Preston tomorrow due to Storm 'Bert'....

In particular...

Storm Bert: do not travel north of Preston on Saturday 23 November

We’re advising customers not to travel north of Preston on Saturday 23 November due to the disruption expected from Storm Bert. Our destinations north of Preston include Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, Carlisle, Glasgow and Edinburgh.

If you were due to travel on this route, your existing ticket can now be used anytime from Friday 22 November to the end of service on Monday 25 November.

Avanti WC have quite often been accused of 'throwing in the towel' North of Preston far too easily, but on this occasion, their caution may prove to have been justified.

 

[enginedin]

Storm 'Bert'

Not sure why you felt the need to put Bert in quotes... it is the name given to the storm by the Met Office (in conjunction with the Irish and Dutch Met Offices), and research shows that public messaging is more powerful when a storm can be referred to directly in this manner.

 

[jfollows]

Not sure why you felt the need to put Bert in quotes... it is the name given to the storm by the Met Office (in conjunction with the Irish and Dutch Met Offices), and research shows that public messaging is more powerful when a storm can be referred to directly in this manner.

I think the names are a bit silly, but at least most people get to know what they mean. It’s actually quite good that Avanti is clear here and enables people with otherwise fixed tickets to make alternative plans.

 

[enginedin]

I think the names are a bit silly

The principle of naming storms, or just some of the individual names?

If the former, then I'd refer back to the strength of the public messaging that it provides. If the latter, then you are able to suggest your own for next season...

 

[jfollows]

The principle of naming storms, or just some of the individual names?

If the former, then I'd refer back to the strength of the public messaging that it provides. If the latter, then you are able to suggest your own for next season...

The former, I don’t need to know a ‘name’, it’s just a storm. But that’s my perception and I’m happy to accept that it works for others.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Someone on one of my WhatsApp groups has just sent out the perennial meme that pretty much sums it up

“SEVERE WEATHER WARNING!
Southerners are urged not to travel unless absolutely necessary.
“Northerners you will need your big coat.”

What's wrong with TOCs these days? Just run the advertised service and let your customers make up their own minds as to whether to travel or not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the names are a bit silly, but at least most people get to know what they mean. It’s actually quite good that Avanti is clear here and enables people with otherwise fixed tickets to make alternative plans.

Given that TPE are running to Carlisle (as is usual in these cases) not arranging acceptance is a bit off, particularly given that if TPE aren't going past Carlisle they won't exactly be full.

 

[A S Leib]

What's wrong with TOCs these days? Just run the advertised service and let your customers make up their own minds as to whether to travel or not.

Do staff get a say as to whether it's safe to work or not?

 

[aleph_0]

What's wrong with TOCs these days? Just run the advertised service and let your customers make up their own minds as to whether to travel or not.

There's a risk of serious disruption. If issues do occur, it's likely sufficient road replacement travel will not be available. They have a duty of care to passengers.

It sounds like they're going to try to run a normal service, so passengers *do* have a choice. But it's also sensible advice for someone who doesn't need to travel, or can make their trip earlier/later, and arrange easements to allow that to happen.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

What's wrong with TOCs these days? Just run the advertised service and let your customers make up their own minds as to whether to travel or not.

Trying to run the advertised service when there are blanket speed restrictions would be disastrous.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think Northern have actually got this one right. Their website says:

Storm Bert - Saturday 23 November

Storm Bert is expected to bring some rainfall and high winds to the North of England, which may cause some disruption to parts of our network.

Over the next few days we recommend you check before you travel, first by planning your journey and then checking just before you travel using our service updates page, or our check your journey box below, to see how your train is running.

Severe weather warning

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

That seems perfectly pragmatic. It's putting people on notice that there may well be disruption due to the upcoming weather but isn't trying to put the frighteners on anyone by saying "DO NOT TRAVEL" or hacking the timetable to pieces prematurely. I don't think there's anything wrong with TOCs warning people that they might want to double check before travelling because there could be disruption due to weather.

 

[Snow1964]

Of course if you do it on a risk assessment basis, need to show that the train is less safe, than the potential passengers homes (however ramshackle and unsafe they are).

Although the cynic in me says they prob haven't done that, and just find it easier option than running a service, whilst there is lowest tier (yellow) of Met office warnings for the area. It is only a warning level, not a take a definite action needs be taken level.

 

[12LDA28C]

There's a risk of serious disruption. If issues do occur, it's likely sufficient road replacement travel will not be available. They have a duty of care to passengers.

It sounds like they're going to try to run a normal service, so passengers *do* have a choice. But it's also sensible advice for someone who doesn't need to travel, or can make their trip earlier/later, and arrange easements to allow that to happen.

Avanti are evidently not going to try to run a normal service tomorrow. Nothing running north of Preston after 1100 I believe.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I think Northern have actually got this one right. Their website says:

Severe weather warning

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

That seems perfectly pragmatic. It's putting people on notice that there may well be disruption due to the upcoming weather but isn't trying to put the frighteners on anyone by saying "DO NOT TRAVEL" or hacking the timetable to pieces prematurely. I don't think there's anything wrong with TOCs warning people that they might want to double check before travelling because there could be disruption due to weather.

Exactly. It's very rare I praise Northern but they've struck the right balance; making their customers aware of any potential disruption but not patronising or mollycoddling them.

 

[ainsworth74]

Of course if you do it on a risk assessment basis, need to show that the train is less safe, than the potential passengers homes (however ramshackle and unsafe they are).

Although the cynic in me says they prob haven't done that, and just find it easier option than running a service, whilst their is lowest tier (yellow) of Met office warnings for the area

I'm not an expert but I'm pretty that's not how you'd risk assess this situation, if you were trying to do so sensibly. Equally it doesn't look anyone has withdrawn their service just because of a yellow warning? It looks like even Avanti are still running their service. So I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at?

 

[Lg_]

Standard Avanti behaviour to be honest now, anything north of Preston is abandoned at the first opportunity.

Given nothing is running north of Carlisle they could easily run alternate services through or even a shuttle between Preston and Carlisle.

 

[iknowyeah]

I'll be keeping my eye on this as I'm due on the last Euston from Manchester tomorrow, got a Eurostar at 0804 so hoping it's not too bad

 

[TSG]

Not sure why you felt the need to put Bert in quotes... it is the name given to the storm by the Met Office (in conjunction with the Irish and Dutch Met Offices), and research shows that public messaging is more powerful when a storm can be referred to directly in this manner.

I'm now wondering if we'll get to Ernie later in the winter.....

 

[JamesT]

I'm now wondering if we'll get to Ernie later in the winter.....

I’m afraid this year’s E storm will be Éowyn.

 

[enginedin]

Standard Avanti behaviour to be honest now, anything north of Preston is abandoned at the first opportunity.

Given nothing is running north of Carlisle they could easily run alternate services through or even a shuttle between Preston and Carlisle.

Unless you've got access to non-public information, you have misinterpreted the information that has been published. They have not said that they are not running services, just that they advise not to travel (because of potential disruption / delay / cancellations). These are two different things.

Avanti are evidently not going to try to run a normal service tomorrow. Nothing running north of Preston after 1100 I believe.

Evidence?

 

[aaronspence]

Unless you've got access to non-public information, you have misinterpreted the information that has been published. They have not said that they are not running services, just that they advise not to travel (because of potential disruption / delay / cancellations). These are two different things.


Evidence?

x.com

x.com

Hi, I’m due to travel glasgow to Birmingham tomorrow with my child changing at Wigan and got an email saying that journey may be affected ? Where is the closest station to glasgow that trains will run to Birmingham ? Is there an alternative route? Im confused

Hi Eve, we are advising people not to travel tomorrow north of Preston, services will be running and terminating at Preston. - Pete

 

[enginedin]

x.com

x.com

thanks. Inconsistent messaging helps no-one, as this shows.

 

[aaronspence]

thanks. Inconsistent messaging helps no-one, as this shows.

Its incredibly inconsistent, this latest tweet implies its only advice, as if the train would continue on beyond Preston.

x.com

x.com

I'm booked 12:52 Edinburgh to Derby via Crewe on 23rd on a West Coast only ticket. Will I be able to divert via East Coast if there is nothing on West Coast?

The advice is to not travel tomorrow to or from any stations north of Preston I'm afraid. - Lucy

 

[hwl]

The former, I don’t need to know a ‘name’, it’s just a storm. But that’s my perception and I’m happy to accept that it works for others.

One of the main reasons for naming is when you have two or three problem storms in the shipping forecast area at the same time as it becomes difficult to know which storm is being referred to.

 

[zwk500]

thanks. Inconsistent messaging helps no-one, as this shows.

Part of a much wider problem of Twitter/X now being the de facto forum for all information. Everybody from journalists and governments to companies to individuals now posts everything on twitter and leaves updating the actual websites to much later (if at all). It's also present to a lesser degree on LinkedIn, and then other social media.

 

[yorksrob]

Official authorities need to be ditching X.

Aside from it's ownership problems, it's rubbish as a platform for disseminating information as you have to log in.

 

[edwin_m]

I think Northern have actually got this one right. Their website says:

Severe weather warning

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

That seems perfectly pragmatic. It's putting people on notice that there may well be disruption due to the upcoming weather but isn't trying to put the frighteners on anyone by saying "DO NOT TRAVEL" or hacking the timetable to pieces prematurely. I don't think there's anything wrong with TOCs warning people that they might want to double check before travelling because there could be disruption due to weather.

But Northern is only offering refunds if the train is cancelled. Similarly the train has to be is cancelled before use of an alternative is allowed, and then only with Northern and only on the same day. Is not issuing a "do not travel" really about giving passengers the choice, or just a reason not to offer the more extensive ticket relaxations that Avanti is?