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Stupid mistake- tried to dodge train fare

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Byzantine

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I made a very stupid mistake and intentionally attempted to dodge a train fare from Twyford to Bristol Temple Meads on Sunday 4th June. I have never done anything of this nature before and will be certain not to do so again. I was caught and am now asking what I should expect to happen.

I quickly caught a train from Twyford (to which I had travelled from Manchester the previous day) on the morning of Sunday 4th June, heading to Bristol. This was an unplanned journey and I intended to buy my ticket on board the train. I took the train from Twyford to Reading; I did not buy a ticket onboard as there was no inspector. I changed at Reading and took the train to Bristol Temple Meads; again no inspector came through so I had no ticket by the time I reached Bristol.

Once I alighted from the train at Bristol I approached the ticket inspectors, and stupidly tried to avoid the full £28 train fare by asking for a ticket from Bath. The ticket inspector immediately caught on to me and asked why I had not bought a ticket at Bath. I lied and told him the turnstiles had been open. He then asked did I live in Bath, I said no and I had travelled there the previous day. He asked did I stay in a hotel, I again lied and said I had stayed with friends. He then asked if I could provide an address for them; at this point I realized it was no use lying and owned up, admitting I was trying to dodge the full fare and would accept whatever penalty was necessary.

He proceeded to ask me a series of questions, noting my responses and the times at which the interview begun and ended. I provided my bank card as ID, I had a letter in my bag with my full address on which I showed him, and gave him my date of birth and phone number. I cooperated with him fully and admitted I had intentionally tried to avoid paying the full train fare. He made notes in his notebook then asked me to sign it and said I could add a statement of my own if I wished. I signed it and added a statement saying I admit I tried to dodge the full train fare, will accept the penalty and will not under any circumstances repeat the offence.

He then let me go and said I would receive a letter in the post in a matter of weeks which would state the amount I would have to pay as a fine, which he said could be around £50 on top of the intended train fare of £28. I asked him if the matter would go to court and he said this would only happen if I tried to appeal the fare; he implied I would just receive the letter and once I paid up, that would be the end of the matter.

I am posting here because I have read about similar cases online where people have received a court summons and a criminal conviction for similar offences and I want to know whether or not I should expect this to happen to me. The inspector was pretty clear that it would only proceed to court if I attempted to appeal (which I won't, I will gladly cooperate and pay the full penalty fee) but I am asking if this is likely to be the case or if it is possible I will receive a court summons in the post despite what he said.

I have never attempted to dodge a train fare before, nor do I have any criminal records; this was a stupid mistake made in a moment of rash hastiness. I cooperated fully once I had owned up and I will most certainly never attempt to do the same thing again.

Am I likely to be summoned to court and gain a criminal record, or are they likely to just charge me the penalty fee and leave it at that?
 
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Puffing Devil

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I don't know the policies of GWR, though I would rely on the steer you had from the RPI that this may well be settled out of court - possibly assisted by your eventual co-operation.

There's little to do now apart from wait for the letter. Chances are all will be fine (no pun) and you'll pay an administrative penalty and the fare due.

Please post back when you have the letter to confirm the outcome, or if you need more help.
 

Byzantine

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I don't know the policies of GWR, though I would rely on the steer you had from the RPI that this may well be settled out of court - possibly assisted by your eventual co-operation.

There's little to do now apart from wait for the letter. Chances are all will be fine (no pun) and you'll pay an administrative penalty and the fare due.

Please post back when you have the letter to confirm the outcome, or if you need more help.

Thanks Puffing Devil- I will wait for the letter and will post here when I've received it to let you know what happens.
 

najaB

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He then let me go and said I would receive a letter in the post in a matter of weeks which would state the amount I would have to pay as a fine, which he said could be around £50 on top of the intended train fare of £28. I asked him if the matter would go to court and he said this would only happen if I tried to appeal the fare; he implied I would just receive the letter and once I paid up, that would be the end of the matter.
Did he specifically *say* that is what would happen, or what did he imply that's what would probably happen?
 

Byzantine

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Did he specifically *say* that is what would happen, or what did he imply that's what would probably happen?

He said in words that the matter would only be taken to court if I tried to appeal.
 

mikeg

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I agree with Puffing Devil that an out of court settlement is the most likley outcome and you should await the letter.

As an aside, you must buy your ticket before you board any train at Twyford. This is in line with National Railway Byelaws, the only excuse is if facilities do not exist, therefore you were incorrect in thinking you could buy on the train. Great Western also operate a penalty fares scheme from Twyford, which means even if you intended to buy on the train, it is not permitted*. Had you been honest, you would likely have been required to pay a penalty fare of at least £20, or twice the anytime single for the appropriate class of accomodation, whichever is greater. However, as you lied, this matter has been reported for prosecution as penalty fares are more for mistakes and acts of carelesness (thinking it's okay to pay on the train, losing your ticket or an expired railcard, etc.) and are not there for people who deliberately avoid paying their fare.

Await the letter, when it arrives post back here. Your response will need to be apologetic,factual, brief and reassure them it won't happen again. Members of the forum will be able to assist you in drafting such a response. But until then the best option is to wait.

*The only excuse would be if the ticket office was closed and all of the machines were broken. In that case you must buy your ticket either on the train, at interchange if enough time exists, or at your destination, whichever comes first.
 

Byzantine

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I agree with Puffing Devil that an out of court settlement is the most likley outcome and you should await the letter.

As an aside, you must buy your ticket before you board any train at Twyford. This is in line with National Railway Byelaws, the only excuse is if facilities do not exist, therefore you were incorrect in thinking you could buy on the train. Great Western also operate a penalty fares scheme from Twyford, which means even if you intended to buy on the train, it is not permitted*. Had you been honest, you would likely have been required to pay a penalty fare of at least £20, or twice the anytime single for the appropriate class of accomodation, whichever is greater. However, as you lied, this matter has been reported for prosecution as penalty fares are more for mistakes and acts of carelesness (thinking it's okay to pay on the train, losing your ticket or an expired railcard, etc.) and are not there for people who deliberately avoid paying their fare.

Await the letter, when it arrives post back here. Your response will need to be apologetic,factual, brief and reassure them it won't happen again. Members of the forum will be able to assist you in drafting such a response. But until then the best option is to wait.

*The only excuse would be if the ticket office was closed and all of the machines were broken. In that case you must buy your ticket either on the train, at interchange if enough time exists, or at your destination, whichever comes first.

Thanks mikeg for the information. I was not aware of the penalty fares scheme from Twyford and realize now that I would most likely have been asked to pay a penalty fare even if I had been honest about where I had travelled from. I do not remember if there were purchase facilities at Twyford; I arrived at the station late after a late taxi caused me to miss the train I'd intended to take, and simply got on the next one thinking I could buy my ticket on the train. Now I realize the policy I will definitely be certain to buy my ticket before boarding any train in future.

I will draft an honest and apologetic response to them when I receive the letter and will post here when it has arrived.
 

furlong

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GWR has a clear (and sensible) policy that you can read here.

In summary, that company treats prosecution as a last resort after other methods of settling the matter fail.

Page 25:
We’ll do our best to settle out of court
Prosecution can have serious consequences on your personal and professional life. So if you don’t pay your fare, we’ll do everything we can to avoid taking you to court.

Deciding to go to court
Prosecution is normally a last resort and we look at every case individually. But there are times when we prosecute without trying to settle out of court first. This is usually when a customer has been reported to our Prosecutions department before. We never take our decision to prosecute lightly. We’ll only go ahead if there’s a good chance of a conviction and it’s in the best interests of justice.
 

gray1404

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I do not agree that the OP should have dodged their fare in the slightest. They should buy a ticket before boarding, unless it is an unmanned station. If I was running late for my train and the train arrived, I would only board if I had asked the guard on the train for permission to buy on board before getting on.

I am surprised though that the ticket inspector was asking questions about if the OP lived in Bath, if they had stayed in a hotel and then to do so far as to ask for the addresses of their "friend" they had stayed with. I travel around the UK a lot and my train travel often bears no nexus to where I reside. I also would not know the addresses off the top of my head of the friends and family members I stay with. In fact if at all.

The best thing the OP can do now is wait for a letter to arrive in the post. I am guessing that if you were stopped at Bristol then the company you are dealing with will be Great Western Railway. Provided you have not been stopped by them before you may be offered an out of court settlement on top of the train fare that you should have paid. They may write to you to ask for your version of events as well. On the other hand they could proceed to to prosecution, although we will have to wait and see. There is nothing you can do now until you hear from them. It is important that you keep an eye on your mail regularly including having someone check it for you if you are going to be away for any periods.

It really does amaze me on this forum how many people will try and dodge their fare, lie and make up stories then all of a sudden come clean with a RPI when they get caught out. Then they will claim on here how they cooperated fully with the inspector. Full cooperation with the railway company would mean getting a ticket in the first place.
 

najaB

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I am surprised though that the ticket inspector was asking questions about if the OP lived in Bath, if they had stayed in a hotel and then to do so far as to ask for the addresses of their "friend" they had stayed with.
It's the 'And then what?' technique used to catch someone in a lie without calling them a liar.
 

yorkie

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I don't think there is anything particularly surprising here. Let's remain on topic please.
.... The inspector was pretty clear that it would only proceed to court if I attempted to appeal (which I won't, I will gladly cooperate and pay the full penalty fee) but I am asking if this is likely to be the case ....
What they are saying is that it will only proceed to court if you do not agree to pay an out of court settlement. This is the general policy of many train companies, including GWR, under the circumstances described.

If the matter wasn't settled out of court, and you were found guilty, you would then have to pay a fine and get a criminal record, so as you say it is best not to let that happen.

At this stage there isn't really much more that can be said.
 

philthetube

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I made a very stupid mistake and intentionally attempted to dodge a train fare from Twyford to Bristol Temple Meads on Sunday 4th June.

Don't try to convince anyone you made a mistake, you didn't, you decided to try and avoid payment. When you make contact with GWR be honest and dont say anything which implies there was any responsibility anywhere but with you.
 

najaB

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Don't try to convince anyone you made a mistake, you didn't, you decided to try and avoid payment.
We have this discussion from time to time. The OP committed an action as a result of an error in judgement - which colloquially is phrased as "I made a mistake."

Lexically, the key word is 'made' - past participle of 'to make' - which connotes a deliberate action. If the OP was seeking to avoid taking responsibility they would say "By mistake I..."
 

yorkie

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Yes, saying something like "I am sorry for my error in judgement" is perhaps best.

But I am sure GWR are used to all sorts of responses that are less than perfect and providing the person is co-operating, they are unlikely to deviate from their policy of settling the matter based on receiving sub-optimal wording of correspondence.
 

MarlowDonkey

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As an aside, you must buy your ticket before you board any train at Twyford.

The local services between Paddington and Reading are One Man Operated, thus there isn't usually a Guard or Conductor who will check and perhaps sell tickets. Between Reading and Bristol, the Guard or Train Manager might have checked tickets, but they don't always come round on the HSTs.

This is the map of Twyford station.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations-and-destinations/stations-made-easy/twyford-station-plan

If arriving from the Hurst Road side and travelling towards Reading, you wouldn't pass the ticket office and machines. From memory there's an excess fares window at Reading, but you would only see it if you attempted to leave the platform area.
 

Puffing Devil

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Can we just leave this alone until the OP has a letter?

Could have/should have speculations adds nothing to the OPs case at this point.

Only when the OP has a letter can we provide specific, relevant, advice.
 

gray1404

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Even if we can, and I have not looked into the detail here, establish that the OP had no opportunity to purchase before they arrived at Bristol, does that not become academic at the point the OP lied to the RPI about the ticket they wished to buy in order to obtain a cheaper fare? So in other words, even if there was no suitable opportunity to purchase (again, I have not looked into this so I am not saying there was or was not) they actions still find them guilty of a ticketing offence...
 

najaB

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Even if we can, and I have not looked into the detail here, establish that the OP had no opportunity to purchase before they arrived at Bristol, does that not become academic at the point the OP lied to the RPI about the ticket they wished to buy in order to obtain a cheaper fare?
Yes. That is an offence in and unto itself.
 

Byzantine

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While I don't remember whether or not I saw ticketing facilities at Twyford, I do believe I had ample opportunity to buy a ticket before arriving at Bristol and there is not much use in debating this as I accept full responsibility for the offence I committed by lying to the RFI in an attempt to evade the fare. In contrast to Deepgreen's response I do not see anything wrong with the forum offering advice to fare evaders who are genuinely sorry and regretful for their actions and who have no intention of reoffending. As Puffing Devil stated I feel it is much better for me to focus now on taking responsibility for my offence and awaiting the letter so I can respond to the penalty appropriately.
 

Whopper

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It is usually an £80 'admin fee and the full standard day single fare. If dialogue is entered into or a second letter is sent then the admin charge increases. If dialogue if further continued or no reply is received then it will result in a court hearing.
 

Byzantine

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I received the letter from GWR this morning. They offered me an out-of-court settlement of £150.50 (The £70.50 for the outstanding fare plus admin charges. The original fare had been much higher that I'd realized at the time.). They did not ask for my version of events, just an upfront payment to avoid a court hearing.

I have paid the full £150.50 online via the GWR website and have received an email saying the case is now closed.

Thanks to everyone who responded to this thread for their advice. I now realize how serious an offence it is to attempt to evade a train fare and will be certain not to repeat this offence in future under any circumstances whatsoever.
 

Puffing Devil

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Thanks for getting back to us with the outcome. It's a useful reference point for others in the same situation.

Useful and expensive lesson learnt!
 

yorkie

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This is useful to know; thanks for updating us.
I received the letter from GWR this morning. They offered me an out-of-court settlement of £150.50 (The £70.50 for the outstanding fare plus admin charges. The original fare had been much higher that I'd realized at the time.)....
Yes, that's right, the fare being the Anytime Single (SOS) which is well over double the Super Off Peak Single (SSS) fare that would have been available at the ticket office.
 

gray1404

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Thanks for coming back to let us know how you got on. I am glad you paid it and that is the end of it. I am sure you have learnt your lesson.

I would say you are lucky that they have offered you this option straight up without the need to write back and give your side, then wait for their reply again thus dragging it out even longer. Be sure not to come up on their radar again though as they may not offer such a settlement a second time.

Also, to anyone reading this who is thinking of evading their fare, it would be very unwise to rely on any TOC offering an Out Of Court Settlement if you are caught avoiding your fare. The train companies are under no duty whatsoever to do so.
 
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