Suggested West Coast (London Euston - Rugby Fast Lines) post HS2

[adrock1976]

Assuming the western sections of HS2 (and HS3/Northern Powerhouse/Transpennine Route Upgrade, etc) have been completed (including Crewe - Bamfurlong), I have thought about a possible service pattern for the Fast Lines between London Euston and Rugby (concentrating on Table 65 - Table 66 is the Slow Lines).

2tph Wolverhampton, calling Watford Junction, Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Sandwell & Dudley, and Wolverhampton. 1tph continues to Shrewsbury, calling Telford Central, Wellington Telford West, and Shrewsbury, with the other 1tph continuing to Liverpool Lime Street, calling Stafford, Crewe, Hartford, Runcorn, Liverpool South Parkway, and Liverpool Lime Street (traditional InterCity).

1tph Manchester Pic, calling Watford Junction (pick up only), Milton Keynes Central, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport, and Manchester Pic (between Stoke and Manchester, this would run in the opposite half hour to the Bournemouth - Manchester ICXC, providing 2tph traditional InterCity along this common section).

1tph Chester/Holyhead, calling Watford Junction (pick up only), Milton Keynes Central, Stafford, Crewe, and Chester, with 2 hourly extensions to Holyhead calling at least Llandudno Junction, Bangor (Gwynedd), and Holyhead. Also and if need be, a portion could couple/uncouple at Crewe that runs to either Liverpool via Runcorn, Preston/Blackpool, or Lancaster/Barrow-in-Furness (obviously omitting the request stops between Lancaster and Barrow). Traditional InterCity.

2tph Rugeley Trent Valley via Northampton* (Regional Express), calling Milton Keynes Central, Northampton, Long Buckby (for integrated bus link to Althorpe Park), Hillmorton Crick Road/Rugby Parkway, Rugby Town/Midland, Nuneaton, Atherstone, Polesworth (situation with London platform sorted out), Tamworth, Lichfield TV, and Rugeley TV. 1tph to Crewe calling Stafford and Crewe, with the other 1tph to Manchester Pic calling Stoke-on-Trent, Congleton, Macclesfield, Cheadle Hulme, Stockport, and Man Pic.

2tph Northampton* (Regional Express) calling Watford Junction, Bletchley (for Bletchley Park and East West Rail), Milton Keynes Central, Wolverton, Roade (reopened on the Northampton Loop Line only), and Northampton. Either these could continue to Birmingham New Street calling Long Buckby (for integrated bus link to Althorpe Park), Hillmorton Crick Road/Rugby Parkway, Rugby Town/Midland, Coventry, Tile Hill (for Godiva Tramlink), Birmingham International, and Birmingham New Street (or calling all stations Coventry - International, then New Street), or alternatively, the Northampton - Birmingham section could be run as a Rugeley TV Northampton via Walsall, Soho, and New Street, or tagged on to the London - Northampton Slow Lines.

4tph Milton Keynes Central, calling Watord Junction and Milton Keynes Central. This could be promoted as the MK Shuttle, and would run ahead of the 4 traditional InterCity trains so as to reduce crowding.

Also, I have based this on the assumption that the Euston - Rugby section is timed for 110mph max, rather than 125mph with tilting trains (the 390s and the Voyagers were built back in 2000/01 and will be heading for retirement during the course of the 2030s).

*These would cross over to the Loop Line at Hanslope Junction.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One is already proposed - this diagram shows the evening peak version (quoted from a random Wordpress site, but it's actually in an official Government document somewhere)

https://beleben.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/hs2-phase-one-fbc-apr2020-wcml-fl-sl-with-hs2-pm-peak.png

 

[21C101]

One is already proposed - this diagram shows the evening peak version (quoted from a random Wordpress site, but it's actually in an official Government document somewhere)

https://beleben.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/hs2-phase-one-fbc-apr2020-wcml-fl-sl-with-hs2-pm-peak.png

I suspect it is buried well in said official document, as it shows up the real reason HS2 is needed.

To get most of the Intercities off the fast lines to make space for an enhanced commuter service between London, MK, Northampton and Nuneaton.

It is the inevitable consequence of building three vast new towns on the WCML south of Rugby.

With eleven "suburban" London Midland services an hour running between Euston and various points between Watford and Rugby (and places like Tring getting 8 an hour each way) it would solve what do do with the majority of Crossrail services that will not currently go west of Paddington.

 

[The Planner]

Terminating at Rugeley TV is one of the most bizarre suggestions I have seen on here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With eleven "suburban" London Midland services an hour running between Euston and various points between Watford and Rugby (and places like Tring getting 8 an hour each way) it would solve what do do with the majority of Crossrail services that will not currently go west of Paddington.

The plan to put Crossrail onto the WCML has been binned, and almost nobody on the south WCML actually wants it anyway. They will all be Euston services other than the Southern (which seems not to be shown on that picture but I've seen it on others, possibly 2tph all day). Even if it did happen it was only going to be 2tph of Tring stoppers.

And yes, HS2 Phase 1 should probably be called "the south WCML capacity project".

 

[A0]

One is already proposed - this diagram shows the evening peak version (quoted from a random Wordpress site, but it's actually in an official Government document somewhere)

https://beleben.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/hs2-phase-one-fbc-apr2020-wcml-fl-sl-with-hs2-pm-peak.png

It's from the HS2 Phase 1 business case document. A quick Google search will find it for you.

 

[adrock1976]

Terminating at Rugeley TV is one of the most bizarre suggestions I have seen on here.

The image that was linked to seems to suggest one terminating at Lichfield TV rather than Rugeley.

However, that does seem a strange place to end - the train may as well carry on to Crewe or Manchester.

The only trains terminating at Rugeley TV would obviously be the ones via Walsall, as it has its own dedicated platform and track to do so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The image that was linked to seems to suggest one terminating at Lichfield TV rather than Rugeley.

However, that does seem a strange place to end - the train may as well carry on to Crewe or Manchester.

The only trains terminating at Rugeley TV would obviously be the ones via Walsall, as it has its own dedicated platform and track to do so.

To be fair it is a peak extra.

@A0wen has pointed out that it's from the Phase 1 business case: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hs2-phase-one-full-business-case

Here is the off peak one which is clearer, though this is only Phase 1:



Unfortunately the Phase 2a docs don't show an update to this, but it should give an idea. I'd expect another Trent Valley local service at least, but little change to most of what is shown there.

 

[A0]

To be fair it is a peak extra.

@A0wen has pointed out that it's from the Phase 1 business case: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hs2-phase-one-full-business-case

Here is the off peak one which is clearer, though this is only Phase 1:

View attachment 106006

Unfortunately the Phase 2a docs don't show an update to this, but it should give an idea. I'd expect another Trent Valley local service at least, but little change to most of what is shown there.

I suspect following the problems LNW experienced running stoppers across Birmingham New Street and their ability to keep time that what will end up happening is the 3 LNW northbounds seen there will get capped at Birmingham New Street and there will be a Birmingham - Liverpool and a Birmingham - Crewe via Stoke stopper in place.

The service patterns here look pretty much like the current (i.e. pre Covid) position. So once again, the benefit for Northampton of HS2 is...........

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect following the problems LNW experienced running stoppers across Birmingham New Street and their ability to keep time that what will end up happening is the 3 LNW northbounds seen there will get capped at Birmingham New Street and there will be a Birmingham - Liverpool and a Birmingham - Crewe via Stoke stopper in place.

Yes, I expect so, this does date from when the through services were considered desirable, before it was found that they destroyed the timetable.

The service patterns here look pretty much like the current (i.e. pre Covid) position. So once again, the benefit for Northampton of HS2 is...........

Resilience, though remember this is only Phase 1 where there is actually a slight increase to the number of trains using the classic Trent Valley line over the present position. 2A is likely to add another Trent Valley quite possibly via Northampton.

Currently there are 7:
3 Manchester
1 Liverpool
1 North Wales
1 Scotland
1 LNR
...though there will be 8 when the Avanti 7-car 80x show up (an extra Liverpool).

There will be, in HS2 Phase 1, 10:
4 Manchester (3 HS2, 1 classic)
1 Liverpool
1 Liverpool/Lancaster splitter
1 Macclesfield
1 Scotland
1 North Wales
1 LNR

So no room for another TV stopper the whole way until 3 of those Manchesters, both Liverpools, the Macc and the Scotland move to HS2 2A, at which point there'll be loads of capacity for other stuff.

While Phase 1 and 2A are merged in funding terms, I understand 1 is likely to be delivered a considerable time before 2A.

 

[The Planner]

The plan to put Crossrail onto the WCML has been binned, and almost nobody on the south WCML actually wants it anyway. They will all be Euston services other than the Southern (which seems not to be shown on that picture but I've seen it on others, possibly 2tph all day). Even if it did happen it was only going to be 2tph of Tring stoppers.

And yes, HS2 Phase 1 should probably be called "the south WCML capacity project".

It was more than 2tph, at least 4tph if I recall.

 

[PTR 444]

I think in the future there should be a more takt-like approach to the classic WCML with a regular 2tph stopping pattern for each route out of London. It could look something a little like this:

LNWR/Southern
2tph Tring stoppers
2tph Milton Keynes stoppers
2tph East Croydon - Milton Keynes
2tph Semi-fast to Birmingham via Northampton
2tph Trent Valley stoppers

Avanti
2tph Northampton express
2tph to Birmingham/Shrewsbury
1tph to Chester/Holyhead
1tph to Manchester via Trent Valley

 

[adrock1976]

I suspect it is buried well in said official document, as it shows up the real reason HS2 is needed.

To get most of the Intercities off the fast lines to make space for an enhanced commuter service between London, MK, Northampton and Nuneaton.

It is the inevitable consequence of building three vast new towns on the WCML south of Rugby.

With eleven "suburban" London Midland services an hour running between Euston and various points between Watford and Rugby (and places like Tring getting 8 an hour each way) it would solve what do do with the majority of Crossrail services that will not currently go west of Paddington.

Regarding the three New Towns, I am only aware of 2, which are Milton Keynes and Hemel Hempstead. Watford to my knowledge has never been one, and across the other side of Hertfordshire, there is both Stevenage and Hitchin (both served from both St Pancras and Kings Cross).

It's from the HS2 Phase 1 business case document. A quick Google search will find it for you.

To be fair it is a peak extra.

@A0wen has pointed out that it's from the Phase 1 business case: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hs2-phase-one-full-business-case

Here is the off peak one which is clearer, though this is only Phase 1:


Unfortunately the Phase 2a docs don't show an update to this, but it should give an idea. I'd expect another Trent Valley local service at least, but little change to most of what is shown there.

Thanks both.

I do remember seeing that somewhere a while ago.

Also, I do not know if it would be worthwhile for the local stopping trains to call at Queens Park or not, as this would provide an additional point of interchange (first and last) with the London Underground Bakerloo Line. Although interchange is possible at Harrow & Wealdstone, the DC/Bakerloo and the Slow Line platforms are at opposite sides of the formation, with the footbridge between platforms being at the northern end and not a Reading style width.

 

[21C101]

Regarding the three New Towns, I am only aware of 2, which are Milton Keynes and Hemel Hempstead. Watford to my knowledge has never been one, and across the other side of Hertfordshire, there is both Stevenage and Hitchin (both served from both St Pancras and Kings Cross).

The third one is Northampton.

 

[HST43257]

How about this for non DC services out of London on WCML?


AVANTI WEST COAST

• 1tph London to Birmingham calling at Watford Junction, Milton Keynes Central, Coventry, Birmingham International, Lea Hall and Birmingham New Street.
• 1tph London to North Wales calling at Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Crewe, Chester and stations to North Wales destination.
• 1tph London to Birmingham calling at Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Coventry, Tile Hill, Marston Green and Birmingham New Street.
• 1tph London to Manchester calling at Watford Junction, Milton Keynes Central, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport and Manchester Piccadilly.

LONDON NORTH WESTERN RAILWAY (FAST)

• 1tph London to Crewe calling at Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Atherstone, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Rugeley Trent Valley, Stafford and Crewe.
• 1tph London to Crewe calling at Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Nuneaton, Atherstone, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Rugeley Trent Valley, Stoke-on-Trent, Kidsgrove, Alsager and Crewe.
• 2tph London to Northampton calling at Watford Junction, Milton Keynes Central and Northampton.
• 2tph London to Birmingham calling at Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, Milton Keynes Central, Wolverton, Northampton, Long Buckby, Rugby, Coventry, Canley, Tile Hill, Berkswell, Hampton-in-Arden, Birmingham International, Marston Green and Birmingham New Street.

LONDON NORTH WESTERN RAILWAY (SLOW)

• 2tph London to Rugby calling at Watford Junction, Hemel Hempstead, Berkhamsted, Tring, Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, Milton Keynes Central, Wolverton, Northampton, Long Buckby and Rugby.
• 2tph London to Bletchley calling at Harrow & Wealdstone, Bushey, Watford Junction, Kings Langley, Apsley, Hemel Hempstead, Berkhamsted, Tring, Cheddington, Leighton Buzzard and Bletchley.
• 2tph London to Tring calling at Wembley Central, Harrow & Wealdstone, Bushey, Watford Junction, Kings Langley, Apsley, Hemel Hempstead, Berkhamsted and Tring.

SOUTHERN

• 2tph Clapham Junction (or beyond) to Milton Keynes calling at stations to Wembley Central then Harrow & Wealdstone, Watford Junction, Hemel Hempstead, Berkhamsted, Tring, Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley and Milton Keynes Central.

Note: Overground (North, East, South and West London Lines) would go from every 12 minutes to every 10 minutes to help integrate with other services all over their network.

 

[The Planner]

Avanti style services are not going to stop at shacks like Lea Hall, Tile Hill etc. Overground is only 4tph?

 

[HST43257]

Avanti style services are not going to stop at shacks like Lea Hall, Tile Hill etc. Overground is only 4tph?

Took the most used ones between Coventry and Brum, as there's less requirement for high speed London to Brum services. Usage stats don't show London traffic and Brum traffic so perhaps not really viable.

When I said overground I meant North, East, South and West London Lines. Will edit.

 

[A0]

Regarding the three New Towns, I am only aware of 2, which are Milton Keynes and Hemel Hempstead. Watford to my knowledge has never been one, and across the other side of Hertfordshire, there is both Stevenage and Hitchin (both served from both St Pancras and Kings Cross).

And Hitchin is definitely *not* a new town.

There are 4 on the ECML suburban network (i.e. were either developed by the New Towns Commission or later) and they are Hatfield, Welwyn Garden City, Stevenage and Peterborough.

 

[adrock1976]

And Hitchin is definitely *not* a new town.

There are 4 on the ECML suburban network (i.e. were either developed by the New Towns Commission or later) and they are Hatfield, Welwyn Garden City, Stevenage and Peterborough.

Many thanks - I had got Hatfield and Hitchin mixed up.