Suggestion for a new Morley tunnel ?

[Halifaxlad]

Since combing NPHR and TRU is going to strain the capacity between Dewsbury and Leeds, in particular improving services at Morley and this new White Rose station once built and that our government may propose further improvements to keep people happy after this great 'betrayal', how about a new Morley Tunnel ?

Perhaps spurring off the existing line just North of Batley Signal box at Howley level crossing, a similar alignment into a portal to the existing then coming out adjacent to the M621 before passing underneath it and joining back into the existing line. (No houses would need to be demolished)

This way Cottingley (if it remains) White Rose (if built) and Morley could all benefit from an improved service. Before anybody makes a comment something like 'that's an expensive way to improve service' my suggestion is about segregating fast services on this section that that too many stations on it! Improving local services is a side benefit!

The line through Morley wouldn't have to be realigned and the existing station could stay in the same place!



If you wanted the existing line could potentially become part of WY Mass Transit, obviously more segregation would be required but the junction at the North end isn't far from where the line to Leeds via Holbeck Viaduct used to diverge.

 

[Bald Rick]

It has been looked at. But on the alignment you suggest it would involve residential property land take.

 

[zwk500]

Is there anywhere closer to the M621 that would avoid the worst of the land take?

 

[Bald Rick]

Is there anywhere closer to the M621 that would avoid the worst of the land take?

Dunno, not too familiar with it to be honest. But a typical portal (with favourable topography) needs a construction site of at least 400x20m. Much larger in some cases.

 

[Halifaxlad]

It has been looked at. But on the alignment you suggest it would involve residential property land take.

It's good to know its previously been looked at. I suppose it depends on how you did it, the important thing is that it wouldnt require the demolition of anyones house!

Is there anywhere closer to the M621 that would avoid the worst of the land take?

The land take that could be problematic is to the South of Morley tunnel not the North, although even then it certainly isn't that bad at all!

 

[Bald Rick]

I suppose it depends on how you did it, the important thing is that it wouldnt require the demolition of anyones house!

But as I said - it does on your alignment. For the avoidance of doubt the options looked at were not on your alignment.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Morley station isn't particularly convenient for Morley itself, so I wouldn't be bending over backwards to keep it where it is.
If one of the Leeds Supertram lines terminated in Morley town centre, the gloomy rain-trap that is Morley (Low) station could be consigned to history.

 

[Ploughman]

From working on relays in Morley tunnel,, we used to have to access via the station only.
The access at the south end was by arrangement with the landowner and was limited to an absolute minimum of vehicles, generally taken as one only.

 

[Halifaxlad]

But as I said - it does on your alignment. For the avoidance of doubt the options looked at were not on your alignment.

I admit the image isn't great quality but when I drew it I certainly drew the line without going through any houses!

Let's just assume whatever you opinion maybe that it is possible without demolishing houses as I would rather have a discussion about the general idea rather than comments about houses.

Morley station isn't particularly convenient for Morley itself, so I wouldn't be bending over backwards to keep it where it is.
If one of the Leeds Supertram lines terminated in Morley town centre, the gloomy rain-trap that is Morley (Low) station could be consigned to history.

I know its not an already great location but under TRU the station will be moved further away towards Leeds!

Personally I think Morley would be better served by mass transit.

 

[Bald Rick]

I admit the image isn't great quality but when I drew it I certainly drew the line without going through any houses!

Let's just assume whatever you opinion maybe that it is possible without demolishing houses as I would rather have a discussion about the general idea rather than comments about houses.

But if the general idea doesn’t work... hence why it was looked at elsewhere.

Drawing a line on a map is very easy, but you need to have an appreciation of what is needed to build the line, as well as what it look like when it is finished. That really matters for tunnel portals.

Otherwise the conversation is completely pointless!

 

[Bevan Price]

In retrospect, it is a pity that the "Leeds New" line no longer exists, but trying to restore it would be impossibly expensive. It was surplus to requirements with 1960 traffic levels, but would be a useful route for Huddersfield / Leeds non-stop trains with current service levels.

 

[quantinghome]

In retrospect, it is a pity that the "Leeds New" line no longer exists,

Yes

but trying to restore it would be impossibly expensive.

Also yes

It was surplus to requirements with 1960 traffic levels,

Again yes

but would be a useful route for Huddersfield / Leeds non-stop trains with current service levels.

No. It would be a very slow and tortuously indirect alignment - it's the purple line below going through Birstall:


Would have been good for a metro service though.

 

[Halifaxlad]

But if the general idea doesn’t work... hence why it was looked at elsewhere.

Drawing a line on a map is very easy, but you need to have an appreciation of what is needed to build the line, as well as what it look like when it is finished. That really matters for tunnel portals.

Otherwise the conversation is completely pointless!

But the general idea does work....

I can't see how looking at it elsewhere would solve the capacity issue between Dewsbury and Leeds ?

Anyway I was going to reply to your comment about tunnel portals earlier but will do so now...

I would start from the North where they appears to be ample room, you would need a compound off Gelderd Rd to construct a new bridge for the M621, once that's done it could be used for access to where the tunnel portal would go.

If you like to see me draw lines without much thought, would you like to see my latest suggestion for NPR which most certainly is crayonista ?

 

[zwk500]

If you like to see me draw lines without much thought, would you like to see my latest suggestion for NPR which most certainly is crayonista ?

Have you made any suggestions that *aren't* crayonista of the highest order?

 

[Bald Rick]

I can't see how looking at it elsewhere would solve the capacity issue between Dewsbury and Leeds ?

the route of the tunnel would be different, ie different start and end points to your proposal. No, I’m not saying where. But I will say that if you are going to the time and trouble to build a new high speed, high capacity route from somewhere near Dewsbury to somewhere near Leeds, you dont want the Dewsbury end to be restricted to the 75mph of the current alignment.

 

[D869]

Green = LYR ?
Purple = LNWR ?
Red = GNR ?
Yellow = MR ?

Useful map, thanks (not RCH colours, though!)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

the route of the tunnel would be different, ie different start and end points to your proposal. No, I’m not saying where. But I will say that if you are going to the time and trouble to build a new high speed, high capacity route from somewhere near Dewsbury to somewhere near Leeds, you dont want the Dewsbury end to be restricted to the 75mph of the current alignment.

If you were building a new alignment for fast services, you wouldn't send it through Dewsbury.

 

[quantinghome]

Green = LYR ?
Purple = LNWR ?
Red = GNR ?
Yellow = MR ?

Useful map, thanks (not RCH colours, though!)

Rail Map online - UK & IE Railways

 

[snowball]

If you were building a new alignment for fast services, you wouldn't send it through Dewsbury.

Except that we are getting 4-tracking with 100/110mph fast lines as far as a point just south of Dewsbury, so attention may now switch to the question of getting from there to Leeds.

 

[Grumpy]

Since combing NPHR and TRU is going to strain the capacity between Dewsbury and Leeds, in particular improving services at Morley and this new White Rose station once built and that our government may propose further improvements to keep people happy after this great 'betrayal', how about a new Morley Tunnel ?

Good on you for putting this idea forward. Don't be discouraged by the crayonistaphobes-this is a speculation thread and as such draws out knowledge from the experts which I am sure many of us appreciate.
Rather than building a new tunnel as described did you consider a surface route approximately(*)using the old GNR Batley branch towards Adwalton but turning right before the Showcase cinema, re-boring Gildersome Tunnel and following the New line surface alignment down to Farnley?
(*)Approximately as some has been built on but there seems to be a lot of greenery to the east.

 

[Spartacus]

In the last few decades there's been quite a bit of housing built along the formation between Batley and J27, although the housing around Howden Clough has been there longer. The South portal of Gildersome tunnel, besides being buried by J27 itself, has quite a lot of now landscaped landfill around it.

I'm not much of a fan of another bore anywhere near Morley tunnel either. The area's home to a LOT of old earthworks, some coal mining, some quarrying (of which there is still some reasonably close), one of which once actually broke through into Morley tunnel. I'm not sure I fancy the chances of missing them all.

 

[driverd]

Absolutely delving into the realms of the impossible here but if its all to play for...

I'd absolutely advocate the re-instatment of the Leeds New Line. Pretty much all of the towns originally served are now without a reasonable railhead, all have poor local bus services (in terms of rail connectivity) and all have grown substantially in the years since the 60s.

Compulsory purchase the lot and just get on with it.

....back to reality .... and I haven't even fixed the capacity issues at Morley. Why not use the old Batley-Birstal line as a spur for high speed services to link on to the reinstated LNL and we can avoid Morley...

 

[BrianW]

I like seeing the speculative ideas, and find their rubbishing by those more 'in the know' interesting, tho often expressed rather fiercely (too fiercely to my taste) and discouraging.
I guess that da Vinci had to develop a tough skin. And I also understand that bees, in theory, are not able to fly.
So for me, carry on 'crayonistas', and you 'realists' too. - especially regarding this area- SOMEHOW the gap (physical, financial, political, et) has to be closed between HS2, and MML, as currently 'planned' and Leeds, with associated changes- routes, rails, trams, buses, power, 'governance', etc, etc.

 

[Spartacus]

I guess that da Vinci had to develop a tough skin. And I also understand that bees, in theory, are not able to fly.

Ah, we know how bees fly now, it's just they hadn't figured out the vortices involved then. Now, when someone works out how cars purr, and what their weird ear-lobe flap's for.....