SWR stations to London Terminals

[DynamicSpirit]

Should a ticket from somewhere on the SWR network (say, Walton-on-Thames, or Woking) to London Terminals be valid to - say - London Bridge or Charing Cross (using SouthEastern from Waterloo East for the final bit of the journey)? I have a friend who sometimes wants to make that kind of journey but says she usually encounters problems at the barriers at Waterloo, with the barriers (or the staff) wanting to collect her ticket, but obviously she would need to keep it to walk from Waterloo to Waterloo East.

 

[alistairlees]

Should a ticket from somewhere on the SWR network (say, Walton-on-Thames, or Woking) to London Terminals be valid to - say - London Bridge or Charing Cross (using SouthEastern from Waterloo East for the final bit of the journey)? I have a friend who sometimes wants to make that kind of journey but says she usually encounters problems at the barriers at Waterloo, with the barriers (or the staff) wanting to collect her ticket, but obviously she would need to keep it to walk from Waterloo to Waterloo East.

Yes, is the simple answer. You can go to any of Charing Cross, London Bridge, Cannon Street, Blackfriars and City Thameslink. This assumes the destination on the ticket is "London Terminals", not London Waterloo. There may be some stations where there is something different, but I can't think of any straight off.

 

[A0]

Should a ticket from somewhere on the SWR network (say, Walton-on-Thames, or Woking) to London Terminals be valid to - say - London Bridge or Charing Cross (using SouthEastern from Waterloo East for the final bit of the journey)? I have a friend who sometimes wants to make that kind of journey but says she usually encounters problems at the barriers at Waterloo, with the barriers (or the staff) wanting to collect her ticket, but obviously she would need to keep it to walk from Waterloo to Waterloo East.

I suspect the problem is travelling through another terminal - which Waterloo technically is.

My understanding is the London Terminals exists to cover the scenario where a station / line may have multiple terminals e.g. on the Great Northern where places like Hatfield have trains which terminate at both Moorgate and Kings Cross - I don't think it's designed to allow you to travel onto another terminal. It might be easier to buy a Zone 1 travelcard which *would* allow for onward journey to another station.

Edit - National Rail has guidance on this and uses Woking as an example, which should answer your question https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/time...ed for travel to,any reasonable line of route.

 

[swt_passenger]

Waterloo main barriers always used to be set up to pass London Terminals tickets straight through -specifically to allow onward travel to other stations, I think covering Charing Cross, London Bridge, Cannon St, Blackfriars and City Thameslink. IIRC when the gateline first appeared SWT‘s website explicitly stated this would continue to be allowed.

The eligibility should still be as per the historical “London SR” group.

(edited to add Cannon St for completeness)

 

[alistairlees]

I suspect the problem is travelling through another terminal - which Waterloo technically is.

My understanding is the London Terminals exists to cover the scenario where a station / line may have multiple terminals e.g. on the Great Northern where places like Hatfield have trains which terminate at both Moorgate and Kings Cross - I don't think it's designed to allow you to travel onto another terminal. It might be easier to buy a Zone 1 travelcard which *would* allow for onward journey to another station.

Edit - National Rail has guidance on this and uses Woking as an example, which should answer your question https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46587.aspx#:~:text=Tickets issued for travel to,any reasonable line of route.

This is not correct (until you edited it, at least). If passing through a London Terminal was a problem, then no-one would ever reach Waterloo (as they'd have to get off at Vauxhall, which is a "London Terminal"). In your example, trains to Moorgate pass through Old Street (itself a "London Terminal").

Anyway, back to the OP: there really should be no problem travelling through Waterloo to any of LBG, CST, CHX, BFR or CTK. All are permitted.

 

[Hadders]

It's not my geographical area but the ticket barriers at Waterloo should not retain tickets with a destination of 'London Terminals' as they are valid for onward travel. I don't know what happens in reality.

At King's Cross the barriers return tickets with a destination of London Terminals as they're valid for onward travel to Moorgate.

 

[Haywain]

At King's Cross the barriers return tickets with a destination of London Terminals as they're valid for onward travel to Moorgate.

Coupled with the fact that we'd be forever emptying the damn things!

 

[DelW]

It's not my geographical area but the ticket barriers at Waterloo should not retain tickets with a destination of 'London Terminals' as they are valid for onward travel. I don't know what happens in reality.

In my experience of travelling into Waterloo with London Terminals tickets (probably several hundred times over decades), as far as I remember the barriers have always returned them. I'd be very taken aback if one didn't.

 

[yorkie]

The answer is yes

I suspect the problem is travelling through another terminal - which Waterloo technically is.

This is not actually a problem, nor would it be a problem in Birmingham, or Liverpool etc.

 

[A0]

At King's Cross the barriers return tickets with a destination of London Terminals as they're valid for onward travel to Moorgate.

Which since you can't use the Underground on a 'London Terminals' ticket presumably means doubling back to Finsbury Park and going to Moorgate that way........ and that begs the question why you wouldn't have got off at Finsbury Park to begin with.....

 

[Haywain]

Which since you can't use the Underground on a 'London Terminals' ticket presumably means doubling back to Finsbury Park and going to Moorgate that way........ and that begs the question why you wouldn't have got off at Finsbury Park to begin with.....

You are talking nonsense. London Terminals tickets which have validity to Kings Cross can be used to travel from Kings Cross to Moorgate/Old Street on London Underground.

 

[yorkie]

Which since you can't use the Underground on a 'London Terminals' ticket .....

...except on interavailable routes, as appropriate for the journey made.

...presumably means doubling back to Finsbury Park and going to Moorgate that way........ and that begs the question why you wouldn't have got off at Finsbury Park to begin with.....

You can take the H&C/Circle/Met or the Northern Line as these are both interavailable; as for the answer to the question, not all trains call at Finsbury Park.

 

[Hadders]

Which since you can't use the Underground on a 'London Terminals' ticket presumably means doubling back to Finsbury Park and going to Moorgate that way........ and that begs the question why you wouldn't have got off at Finsbury Park to begin with.....

Not a trains call at Finsbury Park and so it would be quicker to travel to Moorgate using the Underground.

As mentioned by @Haywain and @yorkie use of the Underground between King’s Cross and Moorgate is allowed with a ticket to London Terminals if that ticket is valid between Finsbury Park and Kings Cross. This is a long standing inter-available route.

 

[A0]

...except on interavailable routes, as appropriate for the journey made.

You can take the H&C/Circle/Met or the Northern Line as these are both interavailable; as for the answer to the question, not all trains call at Finsbury Park.

OK - that's interesting because the link I posted which was NRs one about London Terminals say's using the tube isn't allowed and doesn't mention an exception for KX to Moorgate......

I know when the GN Moorgate services were redirected to the Northern City Line there was some dispensation put in to allow people to get to Moorgate via Farringdon and Barbican, but given how long ago that was, assumed it had been removed.

 

[Hadders]

OK - that's interesting because the link I posted which was NRs one about London Terminals say's using the tube isn't allowed and doesn't mention an exception for KX to Moorgate......

I know when the GN Moorgate services were redirected to the Northern City Line there was some dispensation put in to allow people to get to Moorgate via Farringdon and Barbican, but given how long ago that was, assumed it had been removed.

It's still valid, indeed there was a furore not so long back when the Underground incorrectly set their barriers to reject the tickets at Kings Cross St Pancras. There is a thread on here about it somewhere.

 

[moley]

I last travelled on a London Terminals pre Covid but Waterloo always gave the ticket back. Sometimes the upper gateline at Waterloo East would throw a wobbly on the way in. Used to travel -> Waterloo; Waterloo East -> London Bridge; London Bridge -> City Thameslink then exit the system.

 

[hermit]

As mentioned above, Waterloo barriers always return London Terminals tickets. As well as allowing onward travel to other terminals via Waterloo East, this is also necessary to allow journeys double-backing to Vauxhall (also a London terminal), a journey I do frequently from Portsmouth Harbour, from which the fast trains do not call at Clapham Junction (at least in non-Covid times).

In the past I have occasionally had difficulty getting the barriers to let me on to the platform for the Waterloo-Vauxhall leg, but not in recent times, so the system is set up correctly.

Interestingly, when I finish the journey at Vauxhall, the barriers return the ticket rather than keep it; I haven’t been able to think of a rationale for that.

 

[30907]

Interestingly, when I finish the journey at Vauxhall, the barriers return the ticket rather than keep it; I haven’t been able to think of a rationale for that.

Because they don't know you've alrrady been to Waterloo?

 

[hermit]

I don’t see that that’s it - whether you arrive at Vauxhall direct or via Waterloo, there’s no other London Terminal station you can change for, except Waterloo itself, which no one would ever need to do.

 

[Kilopylae]

It could be to allow break of journey on a journey from the south that you intend to finish at Waterloo, Charing Cross, Cannon Street, or whatever.

 

[David Goddard]

That sounds like an improvement if they are returning now- It was six years ago now, but we were going to an evening event at Vauxhall, then going on to Waterloo. Had a "London Terminals" ticket so expected to get it back but the the gate at Vauxhall retained the ticket. Cue blockage in the subway when I had to get someone to retrieve it at 18:00 on a Friday evening!

 

[hermit]

Thanks - it’s good to know that there is a sensible reason for returning the ticket, even if it must be quite a rare occurrence for people to want to break their journey at Vauxhall. Perhaps if you planned to spend a day watching cricket at the Oval and then go on into central London for the evening.........

 

[Kilopylae]

There are also rentable conference centres around Vauxhall, so it's not unlikely a passenger would be going to a meeting breaking their journey there.

 

[30907]

Thanks - it’s good to know that there is a sensible reason for returning the ticket, even if it must be quite a rare occurrence for people to want to break their journey at Vauxhall. Perhaps if you planned to spend a day watching cricket at the Oval and then go on into central London for the evening.........

A day at the Test and a concert on the South Bank or a play at the Globe - what's not to like

 

[hermit]

As mentioned above, Waterloo barriers always return London Terminals tickets. As well as allowing onward travel to other terminals via Waterloo East, this is also necessary to allow journeys double-backing to Vauxhall (also a London terminal), a journey I do frequently from Portsmouth Harbour, from which the fast trains do not call at Clapham Junction (at least in non-Covid times).

In the past I have occasionally had difficulty getting the barriers to let me on to the platform for the Waterloo-Vauxhall leg, but not in recent times, so the system is set up correctly.

Interestingly, when I finish the journey at Vauxhall, the barriers return the ticket rather than keep it; I haven’t been able to think of a rationale for that.

Having stated above that the Waterloo barriers always open for my journeys Portsmouth - Waterloo- Vauxhall and v.v., it now appears that this is not the case with Semi-flex Portsmouth-London Terminals tickets. On the outward journey, the Waterloo barrier would not accept it for the leg to Vauxhall; and on the return journey, it was not accepted either at Vauxhall or both ‘out’ and ‘in‘ at Waterloo. In all cases I was let through manually.

Any ideas why this might be? For the return journey, I wondered whether it’s so that a check can be made that the ticket is being used within its rather restricted off peak hours of validity, but shouldn’t the barrier be capable of checking that?

 

[kristiang85]

You are talking nonsense. London Terminals tickets which have validity to Kings Cross can be used to travel from Kings Cross to Moorgate/Old Street on London Underground.

Can I clarify - For work, I come into London Waterloo on a London Terminals ticket, and then I use my Oyster to get to Tottenham Court Road, which is near my work.

Does this mean I can actually use the underground to go from Waterloo to Euston on my London Terminals ticket via the Northern Line, and walk to work from there, without using my Oyster?

 

[alistairlees]

Can I clarify - For work, I come into London Waterloo on a London Terminals ticket, and then I use my Oyster to get to Tottenham Court Road, which is near my work.

Does this mean I can actually use the underground to go from Waterloo to Euston on my London Terminals ticket via the Northern Line, and walk to work from there, without using my Oyster?

No, you can't. You can use it to go from Waterloo East to Charing Cross, London Bridge, Cannon Street, Blackfriars or City Thameslink, by National Rail. You can't use it on London Underground, unless ticket acceptance is in place (e.g. during disruption).

The Kings Cross to Moorgate example on London Underground is a special case.

 

[kristiang85]

No, you can't. You can use it to go from Waterloo East to Charing Cross, London Bridge, Cannon Street, Blackfriars or City Thameslink, by National Rail. You can't use it on London Underground, unless ticket acceptance is in place (e.g. during disruption).

The Kings Cross to Moorgate example on London Underground is a special case.

Ah OK, thought so - that special case confused me then. Thanks!