Take earlier train on Advance ticket if booked one cancelled?

[trainophile]

Travelling today Liverpool Lime Street to Hereford (one through Advance ticket) departing LIV 1205, arrive BHM 1351, but just seen that the 1450 to HFD is cancelled due to shortage of train crew.

The timed part of the journey is the 1205 LIV-BHM, but in the circumstances could I get the 1105 to connect with the 1350 at BHM, otherwise I will have a two hour wait? As it’s all the same company (I think?) would this be allowed?

 

[AntoniC]

Get the ticket office at Lime St to print you off a revised itineray and you should not have a problem

(This happened to me on Saturday, XC cancelled my train from New St to Wigan NW via Man Picc so ticket office at New St printed me a new itineray to travel on Avanti to Wigan NW), showed it to the Avanti Guard with no issue).

 

[trainophile]

Thanks!

 

[Watershed]

There is no defined, automatic right to take an earlier train, but if you are prepared to inconvenience yourself in exchange for no compensation, it's certainly worthwhile asking the ticket office or contacting the operator on social media (Twitter etc.).

 

[trainophile]

The ticket cost peanuts, not bothered about delay repay compared with the hassle of waiting around in Brum for two hours and getting back home in the dark. I don’t think there’s a LNWR office at Lime Street, think I will chance it and if I have to buy another ticket on board I’ll have to do that.

 

[AntoniC]

The ticket cost peanuts, not bothered about delay repay compared with the hassle of waiting around in Brum for two hours and getting back home in the dark. I don’t think there’s a LNWR office at Lime Street, think I will chance it and if I have to buy another ticket on board I’ll have to do that.

I got my new itinerary from the Ticket Office at New St, which definitely wasnt an XC ticket office ! - I got this

 

[Bletchleyite]

I got my new itinerary from the Ticket Office at New St, which definitely wasnt an XC ticket office ! - I got this

Just printing off an itinerary doesn't convey the right to use it on an Advance ticket. They would need to endorse the ticket as well.

 

[Watershed]

The ticket cost peanuts, not bothered about delay repay compared with the hassle of waiting around in Brum for two hours and getting back home in the dark. I don’t think there’s a LNWR office at Lime Street, think I will chance it and if I have to buy another ticket on board I’ll have to do that.

There isn't, but you can still ask the ticket office staff there or else contact them by social media.

I'd advise against simply chancing it, because there is the possibility of receiving a Penalty Fare or being prosecuted - even though the railway is 'in the wrong' here.

 

[AntoniC]

Just printing off an itinerary doesn't convey the right to use it on an Advance ticket. They would need to endorse the ticket as well.

Not in my case, I showed the Avanti Guard my original (unendorsed ticket) and revised itinerary and explained why my journey was amended and they said fine

 

[trainophile]

Asked at Lime Street info desk… “you’ll have to ask the guard”.

Are LNWR and WMR part of the same outfit?

 

[Watershed]

Asked at Lime Street info desk… “you’ll have to ask the guard”.

Are LNWR and WMR part of the same outfit?

Yes, they are. I would recommend asking the actual ticket office staff.

No harm asking the guard if all else fails.

 

[trainophile]

Don’t think I’ve got time to go all the way back to the ticket office (which is Northern isn’t it?) now, it’s due in any minute. If it’s effectively the same operator I can’t see why they wouldn’t allow it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don’t think I’ve got time to go all the way back to the ticket office (which is Northern isn’t it?) now, it’s due in any minute. If it’s effectively the same operator I can’t see why they wouldn’t allow it.

Ask the guard. I'd be surprised if they said no; WMT guards are renowned for not really giving a stuff about anything to do with revenue.

Not in my case, I showed the Avanti Guard my original (unendorsed ticket) and revised itinerary and explained why my journey was amended and they said fine

That's "asking the guard" - unless the ticket is endorsed it doesn't constitute the right to travel on the alternative itinerary. Guards are usually reasonable, though there are the odd known ones that aren't.

 

[trainophile]

It’s 8 coaches (2x4s) and I’m in the front set. Looked for the guard before boarding and again a few minutes ago but the cleaner said he’s probably gone to the shop!

Think he’s on board now as he just made an announcement about face coverings, but he might be in the back set as I didn’t see him go past the window. It’s two trains with no walk-through so I can’t really go looking for him now.

Edit: Well blow me down, he’s just announced about short platforms and told people to walk through! I would have sworn it wasn’t that sort of train!

 

[Wolfie]

It’s 8 coaches (2x4s) and I’m in the front set. Looked for the guard before boarding and again a few minutes ago but the cleaner said he’s probably gone to the shop!

Think he’s on board now as he just made an announcement about face coverings, but he might be in the back set as I didn’t see him go past the window. It’s two trains with no walk-through so I can’t really go looking for him now.

If it's LNWR then it will be class 350s which definitely have walk-through. I've never known them to be otherwise.

 

[Watershed]

It’s 8 coaches (2x4s) and I’m in the front set. Looked for the guard before boarding and again a few minutes ago but the cleaner said he’s probably gone to the shop!

Think he’s on board now as he just made an announcement about face coverings, but he might be in the back set as I didn’t see him go past the window. It’s two trains with no walk-through so I can’t really go looking for him now.

You can walk through (you used not to be able to do so, but that's changed). The guard will almost certainly be in the front cab of the rear unit.

 

[trainophile]

Thanks for clarifying. I will have a better look when I get off. I was sure it looked like two pointy ends facing eachother . I walked back down the platform to see if he was in the little office beside the passageway but there wasn’t one.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks for clarifying. I will have a better look when I get off. I was sure it looked like two pointy ends facing eachother . I walked back down the platform to see if he was in the little office beside the passageway but there wasn’t one.

Does it not look something like this (but coupled together)?

 

[Starmill]

It's worth nothing that West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway say this online about Advance tickets:

There is no refund value on any Advance ticket but, if the train you purchased a ticket for is cancelled or delayed by more than 60 minutes, special arrangements will be made to accommodate you on another train...

That doesn't say "the following train" it says "another train" - so there's a presumption towards the preceeding one also being allowed.

 

[trainophile]

Does it not look something like this (but coupled together)?

I’m doubting myself now, it may have been the livery that made me think at a glance that it was more Pendolino shaped. Think I’d better stop digging on that one!

Thanks Starmill, the problem with today’s situation is that the 1205 that my ticket is valid for IS running, it’s the connection at the end of that leg of the journey that’s cancelled.

At Wolverhampton now and not going to tempt fate with a progress update!

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can walk through (you used not to be able to do so, but that's changed). The guard will almost certainly be in the front cab of the rear unit.

You have always been able to walk through multi-unit 350 formations, right back to when they were introduced. You only can't when they forget to enable the buttons when coupling the sets. They might have "paused" the ability for COVID, though, I suppose.

Liverpool-Brum is never operated with anything other than 350s, and all of them are gangwayed.

TBH if you're at Wolves you've probably no need to bother asking, nobody ever does a ticket check between Brum and Wolves. Use the B end to change at New St and you won't have to there, either.

 

[trainophile]

YAY, no ticket check. Phew!

I was lucky to get out right next to the escalator so didn’t get to have a look at the coupling arrangement, but I will be guided by the experts on here, and pay more attention next time!

Travelling shouldn’t have to be so stressful though!

 

[Bletchleyite]

YAY, no ticket check. Phew!

I was lucky to get out right next to the escalator so didn’t get to have a look at the coupling arrangement, but I will be guided by the experts on here, and pay more attention next time!

Travelling shouldn’t have to be so stressful though!

The railway really needs to follow easyJet, and as soon as a cancellation appears in an Advance booking to allow free changes at no fee. That would have solved your problem and stress as you could have rebooked. It would also save them paying out Delay Repay vs. just showing up and being late.

 

[XAM2175]

The railway really needs to follow easyJet, and as soon as a cancellation appears in an Advance booking to allow free changes at no fee. That would have solved your problem and stress as you could have rebooked.

DB's Navigator app has been able to do it for years now! Very much a feature that needs to make its way over here.

 

[yorkie]

Asked at Lime Street info desk… “you’ll have to ask the guard”.

This is not untypical.

Are LNWR and WMR part of the same outfit?

London Northwestern Railwau (LNR) and West Midlands Railway (WMR) are both brand names of the same train company, namely West Midlands Trains (WMT).