TfL - Court - Staff Nominee Card

[calryd]

Hi all,

I am in a bit of bad position, and it is entirely my fault. However, the charges laid by TfL are excessive and untrue.
My brother has a staff nominee card, which I stupidly use when my brother was away (he was unware). We live together, so it was easy to access. I had a job intereview finally after many months of trying to find a job. Anyways, that is no excuse, but I was just tight for money.

Anyways, I got stopped on the way back from my interview and they saw I used my brothers card. They confiscated it. Asked how many times and how long I have been using it for, and I say only for a couple of days. Said I would be receiving a letter, but got an email instead. I confirmed the version of events from the inspector.

Fast forward a few months and I receive a SJPN to attend and that they suspected me of using the card 70 times. I only used 5 times.
The other times was my brother and he is happy to provide evidence and be witness to the case to affirm that 65 of 70 times that they suspected me, it was actually him. The majority of the time was him going to and from work and that was evident in the log they sent as evidence.

I am only given the option to plead guilty to 70 offences caused or not guilty.

I am guilty of the 5, but I will not accept the other 65, as it was used legimately. My brother has his work contract which shows station usage near his work. Moreover, he is willing to be a witness.

I am guilty and happy to take that on the chin, but it appears this is I am guilty of the 70 or not guilty at all. Can that be adjusted by the magistrates judge on the trial date?

Any thoughts?

 

[methecooldude]

If you pled guilty to the SJPN, there will be on trial, that's how those work.

I suspect you'll have to either:
1. Pled not-guilty and explain it to the magistrate
or
2. Try and get in touch with TfL about it, see if they can change the SJPN

In other advice: Your brother, who I assume now knows about your mis-use of his card, needs to contact whomever gave him the Staff Nominee card and advise them of the situation, as it may affect their employment

 

[calryd]

Thanks for the response.

I will try to contact TfL first, I suppose.

Brother's partner is the nominee, and they are aware of the situation.

 

[Haywain]

I receive a SJPN to attend

This is a contradiction - a SJPN hearing is not something you are required to, or can, attend. If your attendance has been demanded it will be a court summons or requisition that you have received. In order to clear this up could you please post copies of what you have received, with your personal details obscured.

 

[Hadders]

You need to be careful here.

You don't mention whether or not the member of staff who is responsible for the card has been investigated - we have seen cases like this result in dismissal before. Contacting TfL could mean they start to dig a little deeper, if they haven't already done so.

 

[pedr]

Can you post copies of the paperwork you have been sent (with your name and names of any railway employees, as well as any reference numbers redacted)?

Advice on how to proceed will be helped if we can see exactly what the paperwork sets out as the allegations, and the process being used. There is a procedure which appears similar to the SJPN but which requires attendance at court even for a guilty plea, which is one which can be used where one lead offence is being charged and other offences are included. Under that procedure, there should be an opportunity to identify which other allegations you are admitting, and any which you do not admit.

 

[swt_passenger]

If you pled guilty to the SJPN, there will be on trial, that's how those work.

I think you meant “no trial“ above. On trial is an unfortunate typo…

 

[Snow1964]

If you pled guilty to the SJPN, there will be on trial, that's how those work.

you mean no trial, just an administrative processing of guilty

Need to plead NOT guilty. That way won't automatically be processed, charged and fined etc.

I am not an expert in this but generally courts give credit (in the penalty) for pleading guilty as early as possible, so might be sensible to plead guilty to 5 of 70 journeys, (probably don't have to specify which ones at this stage) whilst making it clear not guilty to 65 journeys. Others will advise on this. You should not incriminate yourself for events that you didn't do.

 

[Haywain]

Need to plead NOT guilty. That way won't automatically be processed, charged and fined etc.

We don't know, we need to see the paperwork.

 

[Benjwri]

we have seen cases like this result in dismissal before.

In these cases have the employees not been letting the card be used? Someone using their card without their knowledge while they were away is in effect theft, and I can't imagine an employment tribunal would take a dismissal for that too kindly.

 

[Haywain]

Someone using their card without their knowledge while they were away is in effect theft

It is not theft.

 

[island]

It is not theft.

It isn't, but the underlying point is valid – that it has been known for staff members granted travel facilities which can be used by a nominee to be subjected to disciplinary action for misuse of those travel facilities even if the staff member themselves could not stop it.

 

[furlong]

Please read the paperwork more closely or post pictures of it here (covering up personal data/reference numbers) if you need assistance.

What TfL normally does is prosecute you ONLY for the ONE offence when you were caught. Without seeing the paperwork we don't know whether or not this is the situation here. In this situation your plea of guilty is ONLY in respect of that single offence.

Additionally, they include a schedule listing all the other occasions and INVITE you to agree to them. You do not have to do this and you can respond to this part by telling them that you are willing to accept 5 of these but not the others.
When this procedure is used you are REQUIRED to attend the court to confirm this in person. The court then takes the ones you admitted to into account when deciding a sentence for the original offence. (This might lead to a higher fine but it doesn't always.)

If you reject 65 entries, TfL can then decide whether or not to take any further action with respect to them. (If they decided to prosecute for those, they would need to get some evidence from somewhere, and this is where a statement from your brother could be useful to you.)

 

[calryd]

Sorry all for the delay. A week of interviews.

And I stand corrected that it is requisition. Apologies for that.

Please see below the requistion. I have not included the suspected journey log, witness statement or financial information requirements

 

[furlong]

So the paperwork is what we anticipated. It starts with a prosecution for just ONE offence on the date you were stopped.
So you could choose to plead guilty to that by ticking the box and saying you will attend court on that date.

For the second part, note the words in capitals "AND THAT YOU WERE THE PERSON THAT MADE THOSE JOURNEYS". If you weren't the person, then you must not agree to this without amendments. If there is time before the hearing, you could cross out the journeys you did not make on the schedule and will not be admitting, then write a brief (signed) cover letter explaining this and return that to them (keep a copy). Do not sign the "receipt" box as the number and amount would need changing first. If there's time, they'll send you an updated version with your amendments. If there isn't, they'll deal with your amendments in court on the day.

 

[Snow1964]

So the papers show £6.70 fare avoided
£300.05 other fares avoided per schedule
£375 contribution to TfLs cost

Below the receipt box (do NOT sign this if you disagree the £300.05 other journeys), is space for other information. Use this to state only admitting X of Y other journeys and you have crossed through journeys that were made by the pass holder, not the undersigned who is accused (then sign name below your other info statement).

A bit of a legal nicety is to initial (in the margin) each amendment you make, shows it was your change. Doesn't have to be every line, but at least once on every page you change. This will stop questions about have you verified the changes and are they all yours and not someone else's changes.

Take a photocopy, and keep it, so you know what you have agreed to. You might need this later as changing your version of events again will make you look like unreliable witness.

Either the statement will be reissued in amended form (depending on time remaining before court date), or it will go to court as you updated it and the admin will be dealt with there and then.

Just a quick warning, if you rejecting some of the journeys, then admin time will change, so TfL could reissue with fewer other journeys, but higher admin costs. Don't know if they would do this though.

 

[Haywain]

And I stand corrected that it is requisition. Apologies for that.

This means that you must attend the court hearing.

 

[Hadders]

For completeness, in addition to the £375 contribution towards TfL's costs and compensation for the fares avoided (whether that is £6.70 or the additional £300.50) you will also have to pay a fine related to your income (usually discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity) and surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine.

 

[calryd]

Thank you all for the responses.

So you could choose to plead guilty to that by ticking the box and saying you will attend court on that date.

For the second part, note the words in capitals "AND THAT YOU WERE THE PERSON THAT MADE THOSE JOURNEYS". If you weren't the person, then you must not agree to this without amendments. If there is time before the hearing, you could cross out the journeys you did not make on the schedule and will not be admitting, then write a brief (signed) cover letter explaining this and return that to them (keep a copy). Do not sign the "receipt" box as the number and amount would need changing first. If there's time, they'll send you an updated version with your amendments. If there isn't, they'll deal with your amendments in court on the day.

So the papers show £6.70 fare avoided
£300.05 other fares avoided per schedule
£375 contribution to TfLs cost

Below the receipt box (do NOT sign this if you disagree the £300.05 other journeys), is space for other information. Use this to state only admitting X of Y other journeys and you have crossed through journeys that were made by the pass holder, not the undersigned who is accused (then sign name below your other info statement).

A bit of a legal nicety is to initial (in the margin) each amendment you make, shows it was your change. Doesn't have to be every line, but at least once on every page you change. This will stop questions about have you verified the changes and are they all yours and not someone else's changes.

Take a photocopy, and keep it, so you know what you have agreed to. You might need this later as changing your version of events again will make you look like unreliable witness.

Either the statement will be reissued in amended form (depending on time remaining before court date), or it will go to court as you updated it and the admin will be dealt with there and then.

Just a quick warning, if you rejecting some of the journeys, then admin time will change, so TfL could reissue with fewer other journeys, but higher admin costs. Don't know if they would do this though.

Just picking up on the above responses.

From what I gathered is to plead guilty (tick), but do not accept the "OFFENCES TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION" as the majority of the journeys on the schedule was not made by me.

That would be submitted to the court. Or is it wise to write to TfL to ask for resubmission of the actual offences?

The hearing is in July/August (deliberately being hazy), so got a bit of time.

Bumping - if anyone has any thoughts on the above, I would be grateful

For completeness, in addition to the £375 contribution towards TfL's costs and compensation for the fares avoided (whether that is £6.70 or the additional £300.50) you will also have to pay a fine related to your income (usually discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity) and surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine.

Wait, I just reread this. There is potentially MORE to pay on top of what has been suggested in the requisition? and who gives this fine?

 

[Snow1964]

Wait, I just reread this. There is potentially MORE to pay on top of what has been suggested in the requisition? and who gives this fine?

If you choose not to take a settlement offer, and go to court.

Then if the court finds you guilty, it will add a fine (which will be reduced if plead guilty at earliest opportunity), add a victim surcharge, and add court costs. That is in addition to any compensation TfL submit.

It will also go on the list of found guilty which will appear on any searches for enhanced DBS and possibly other enhanced searches for mortgages or selected jobs etc. Recent guilty at court can even stop you volunteering in some roles eg school governors (especially if get debt order against you)

 

[island]

enhanced searches for mortgages

A criminal conviction will not come up in searches relating to mortgages, unless perhaps someone doesn't pay the fine.

 

[furlong]

That would be submitted to the court. Or is it wise to write to TfL to ask for resubmission of the actual offences?

Yes, because there is plenty of time, tell TfL which ones you are agreeing were yours and they should issue you with an updated version. (Or else they'll tell you they'll deal with it in court on the day.)

Wait, I just reread this. There is potentially MORE to pay on top of what has been suggested in the requisition? and who gives this fine?

Yes, there's more to pay on top - the court (almost certainly) imposes a fine, which is the penalty you have to pay for what you did.