The (apparent?) short life of Avanti buy at seat

[miami]

On an avanti train heading north to Preston. Some time ago, between the various lockdowns there was a sign advertising a great new feature - you could buy from the shop on your phone and have it delivered. Great stuff, and a good reason to buy the overpriced stuff.

When connecting to wifi on this train it's still advertised (and there's a sticked by the table), alas following the link says

Sorry, At-Seat Order isn’t available at the moment.​

To buy food and drink, please visit the Onboard Shop

This has happened a couple of times recently, but that one glorious time last year it did work. I assume the service is switched off by the staff, it's a shame, it really added value. Was this a covid only benefit, or is it supposed to be a permament thing?

 

[swt_passenger]

Probably part of this:

RMT Ballot Avanti West Coast Members For Strike Action

RMT balloting for strike action and action short of a strike on Avanti West Coast over pay, the introduction of standard premium, and other issues. The ballot closes on 18 November. https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members-updates/breakdown-in-industrial-relations--avanti-west-coast211021/...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[williamn]

I've never got it to work, maybe because you have to be connected to wifi which is patchy. In contrast though the LNER at seat service is excellent!

 

[JackWhite]

I've never got it to work, maybe because you have to be connected to wifi which is patchy. In contrast though the LNER at seat service is excellent!

I had absolutely the same experience there too. Was very disappointed to see that but it is what it is.

 

[Djgr]

I will repeat myself here:

Dear TOCs

Please focus on getting the basics right (e.g. seat reservations working, catering failures removed, reduction in cancelled services due to no staff etc.) before introducing trendy yet half-baked and resource distracting innovations (e.g. order at seat app, three class trains).

 

[miami]

I don't give a stuff about seat reservations, and "catering" is a mobile kiosk with a hot water machine and microwave. At seat service is not a gimmick, it's far more valuable than the majority of nonsense the railway provides like ticket offices and antimassacars. Give me a window which doesn't block mobile phone signals, give me power at every seat, and if you're running a long distance train, come into the 21st century and let me buy at my seat like I do with normal food+drink providers.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I don't give a stuff about seat reservations, and "catering" is a mobile kiosk with a hot water machine and microwave. At seat service is not a gimmick, it's far more valuable than the majority of nonsense the railway provides like ticket offices and antimassacars. Give me a window which doesn't block mobile phone signals, give me power at every seat, and if you're running a long distance train, come into the 21st century and let me buy at my seat like I do with normal food+drink providers.

So you're not bothered about the first class host reselling your Standard Premium seat for an upgrade because the reservations haven't been downladed?

 

[Trackman]

I was told a few weeks ago it was a wifi problem but not a straight forward one to fix.

Also, just to throw it out there I've noticed staff shortages of late so may be something to do with that.

 

[Class83]

Probably part of this:

RMT Ballot Avanti West Coast Members For Strike Action

RMT balloting for strike action and action short of a strike on Avanti West Coast over pay, the introduction of standard premium, and other issues. The ballot closes on 18 November. https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members-updates/breakdown-in-industrial-relations--avanti-west-coast211021/...

www.railforums.co.uk

If they're balloting, then they're not currently taking industrial action, so services should still be provided at the moment.

Virgin West Coast were always a lot less enthusiastic about providing the 1st Class food and drink service than East Coast, don't really know why, but service always seemed to be an inconvenience rather than their purpose in being there. East Coast catering staff were just more engaged and happy.

 

[WesternLancer]

On an avanti train heading north to Preston. Some time ago, between the various lockdowns there was a sign advertising a great new feature - you could buy from the shop on your phone and have it delivered. Great stuff, and a good reason to buy the overpriced stuff.

When connecting to wifi on this train it's still advertised (and there's a sticked by the table), alas following the link says

Sorry, At-Seat Order isn’t available at the moment.​

To buy food and drink, please visit the Onboard Shop

This has happened a couple of times recently, but that one glorious time last year it did work. I assume the service is switched off by the staff, it's a shame, it really added value. Was this a covid only benefit, or is it supposed to be a permament thing?

Well about 6 weeks ago (so not ahead of any strike AFAIK) I upgraded to Std Premium on a trip to Blackpool (coach to myself) and when paying on board for the SP upgrade I asked the guard about food service and he apologized and said at table not available on that train as only single crew member in the buffet in coach C. So I assume it is provided by a 2nd staff member in the buffet who takes the order tot he seats. I went to coach C and the buffet car staff member similarly apologized and gave the same reason.

So just seemingly a staff shortage.

 

[Trackman]

Well about 6 weeks ago (so not ahead of any strike AFAIK I upgraded to Std Premium on a trip to Blackpool (coach to myself) and when paying on board for the SP upgrade I asked the guard about food service and he apologized and said at table not available on that train as only single crew member in the buffet in coach C. So I assume it is provided by a 2nd staff member in the buffet who takes the order tot he seats. I went to coach C and the buffet car staff member similarly apologized and gave the same reason.

So just seemingly a staff shortage.

That's what I have experienced recently.
It was a problem with VT as well.

 

[Miken]

I've tried to use this 6 times in the past few weeks and it has never worked once. On a Wigan-Euston pendo earlier this week it got as far as taking my payment then texting to say "order received" only to get a text 5 mins later saying "your order has been cancelled"! Talk about over promise and under deliver - Avanti seem to be masters of this principle... I do believe from asking a TM about it that it takes an extra staff member who has an app which can select items available, take orders and then deliver and is failing either because there's no staff member or the tech fails... I will now simply spend my consumer pound elsewhere and Avanti lose the revenue.

 

[Scotrail314209]

The shop has two members of staff on rather than one, with one manning the counter and the other delivering it to your seat.

Both are responsible for preparing it.

I quite like at seat order when it works, particularly if I’m sat all the way in Coach U.

 

[alangla]

Virgin West Coast were always a lot less enthusiastic about providing the 1st Class food and drink service than East Coast, don't really know why, but service always seemed to be an inconvenience rather than their purpose in being there.

It wasn’t always like that. I (very vaguely) remember some cracking journeys in the 2000s from Glasgow to Euston that involved 2 meals and a shedload of complimentary beers. I think my record was a Glasgow to New Street journey during the Lamington diversion, food & drink on each of the Voyager to Carlisle & the Pendolinos to Preston and then Birmingham.

 

[38Cto15E]

On LNER the staff will walk miles up and down the train (on a 9 car Azuma) delivering peoples order at seat goodies. I can see why the Avanti staff are not very keen on the idea.

 

[Facing Back]

Slighty offtopic sorry. A neighbour of mine works for Avanti and used to work for Virgin - not train crew but involved in customer service. In the pub I was decrying the difference between my weekly 21.20 Euston to Preston on a Thursday in the olden days where the staff took it as a personal insult I was able to get off the train unaided, to more recently when it was 1 G&T per trip only. He came back to me and said it sorted, the trains will carry more G&Ts. He then came back and said there must be a misunderstanding, as the extra supplies were not being consumed, so there clearly wasn’t a demand.

If the staff don’t go up and down, or sat “no” to the passengers who ask, then thats what happens.

Long haul Exeter to Tamworth - no services of any kind on my XC trains - when asked why CS said that customer demand is for more seating rather than catering. OK perhaps but the buffet area was still there and not providing seating, but also not providing food or drink - plus no trolley.

All rather poor as an experience, one I work hard not to repeat.

 

[WesternLancer]

Slighty offtopic sorry. A neighbour of mine works for Avanti and used to work for Virgin - not train crew but involved in customer service. In the pub I was decrying the difference between my weekly 21.20 Euston to Preston on a Thursday in the olden days where the staff took it as a personal insult I was able to get off the train unaided, to more recently when it was 1 G&T per trip only. He came back to me and said it sorted, the trains will carry more G&Ts. He then came back and said there must be a misunderstanding, as the extra supplies were not being consumed, so there clearly wasn’t a demand.

If the staff don’t go up and down, or sat “no” to the passengers who ask, then thats what happens.

Long haul Exeter to Tamworth - no services of any kind on my XC trains - when asked why CS said that customer demand is for more seating rather than catering. OK perhaps but the buffet area was still there and not providing seating, but also not providing food or drink - plus no trolley.

All rather poor as an experience, one I work hard not to repeat.

This is the inevitable result (at least in 1st) of "free" refreshments - which are of course not free at all. Eventually someone back at HQ starts looking at the costs of what is being given away and realizes there is scope for cuts and the offer is limited by various means - eg reduce stocks held on board, indicate to staff they should not give so much away etc etc.

This was why the old restaurant car system was better in my view. You paid for what you wanted, and what you got was very good quality and provided in fairly generous quantities. On WCML you have to go back to BR days to recall that, on ECML to GNER. On GWR the residual Pullman dining gives a sense of it. Worth every penny in my view.

I feel people have been 'taken in' to a certain extent by the free stuff - ratchet up unregulated 1st class fares and then sweeten the pill by giving poeple free mini sized drinks, small portions of crisps and nibbles, and modest amounts of hot food - none of which can cost a vast amount to buy in. Then subsequently find ways to reduce the quantities of these.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I feel people have been 'taken in' to a certain extent by the free stuff - ratchet up unregulated 1st class fares and then sweeten the pill by giving poeple free mini sized drinks, small portions of crisps and nibbles, and modest amounts of hot food - none of which can cost a vast amount to buy in. Then subsequently find ways to reduce the quantities of these.

That's the exact point. Because e.g. a fancy coffee sells for three quid, but costs only a few pence to make, the perceived value is high so you can mark the fares right up, but it costs very little to actually deliver it.

 

[Haywain]

I feel people have been 'taken in' to a certain extent by the free stuff - ratchet up unregulated 1st class fares and then sweeten the pill by giving poeple free mini sized drinks, small portions of crisps and nibbles, and modest amounts of hot food - none of which can cost a vast amount to buy in. Then subsequently find ways to reduce the quantities of these.

I agree with this - some people seem to measure the value of a first class journey by how much food and drink they can consume.

As for Avanti at seat ordering, I have used it a few times now and have been impressed with how well it has worked. On one journey, my order was rejected due to a wifi problem after being confirmed, and was delivered anyway without me being charged.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree with this - some people seem to measure the value of a first class journey by how much food and drink they can consume.

There do seem to be two perceived values for 1st - one it just being a more comfortable seat, which is what Standard Premium is about. The other is about the ancillaries. Obviously some appreciate both, but I get the impression that most of the people who go for the latter would be happy with BR's old Silver Standard - a Standard coach with free goodies.

As for Avanti at seat ordering, I have used it a few times now and have been impressed with how well it has worked. On one journey, my order was rejected due to a wifi problem after being confirmed, and was delivered anyway without me being charged.

I love the idea, but it really should be done not to require the wifi. Connecting to bad quality train wifi is too much hassle for me to bother with it. And some people (e.g. using work devices) won't be permitted to connect to public wifi - I know I'm instructed not to use my work laptop on it, but rather to use 4G via my work phone. I consider that paranoid when coupled with a VPN, but it is policy in quite a number of organisations.

 

[dk1]

That's the exact point. Because e.g. a fancy coffee sells for three quid, but costs only a few pence to make, the perceived value is high so you can mark the fares right up, but it costs very little to actually deliver it.

Wetherspoons prove that where you can drink unlimited cups of Lavazza for 99p.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wetherspoons prove that where you can drink unlimited cups of Lavazza for 99p.

For slightly different reasons, I guess - one being that most people will only have one even if you can have more than one, but secondarily if you do sit in there for several hours drinking coffee you might then go on to buy something else e.g. food.

 

[dk1]

For slightly different reasons, I guess - one being that most people will only have one even if you can have more than one, but secondarily if you do sit in there for several hours drinking coffee you might then go on to buy something else e.g. food.

I'm more inclined to do that now they've moved away from the meal deals especially on breakfast. If it says comes with free tea/coffee I then feel I'm being cheated if I already have one

 

[Scotrail314209]

As for Avanti at seat ordering, I have used it a few times now and have been impressed with how well it has worked. On one journey, my order was rejected due to a wifi problem after being confirmed, and was delivered anyway without me being charged.

Indeed, I've had positive experiences with at-seat order everytime I used it.

They even phoned me up once when they didn't have one of the drinks I've ordered and asked what I want swapped, but in true Pendolino fashion the signal went so I had to go and collect it anyway.

The only negatives is the connectivity being a bit dodgy on the Voyager services.

 

[WesternLancer]

I agree with this - some people seem to measure the value of a first class journey by how much food and drink they can consume.

Yes, the trad pricing (and which I think still typically happens on the continent) of an x% higher fare (50%?) for a x% larger seat and space had a certain logic to it.

Of course the move of private sector transport operators on rail (esp Virgin with their airline background I suppose) brought the idea of freebies in I guess to help add value (and sell more seats). GNER did not go down that route of course.

But simultaneously in the airline market it seems to me the growth are was stripping out anything that could be free as in the budget airline model.

So it's interesting to see how things develop.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, the trad pricing (and which I think still typically happens on the continent) of an x% higher fare (50%?) for a x% larger seat and space had a certain logic to it. Of course the move of private sector transport operators (esp Virgin with airline background) brought the idea of freebies in I guess.

The classic 50-60% uplift sort of reflects the ratio of floor space taken up by the seats, e.g. 76 in a Mk3 TSO vs 48 in a FO - 1.583 - pretty much bob on. That's why I consider that to be the point of good value.

 

[alangla]

If you're a leisure traveller, the whole "experience" is something that you can enjoy as an indulgence. Lounge at Euston, food, drink and a comfortable waiting environment there, board just before departure, spacious seat and the feeling of being waited on hand & foot while you head north, ideally arriving fat & merry at the other end. VT at one point offered other add-ons like reasonably priced limos or motorbikes to take you to/from Euston as well.
Personally, I've never travelled with Avanti, but if they've screwed up the experience aspect then it's likely they'll have removed a big chunk of their First Advance ticket buyers, which is a bit idiotic, given the majority of London - Glasgow business travel at least will probably return to the airlines, if it returns at all.

 

[WesternLancer]

If you're a leisure traveller, the whole "experience" is something that you can enjoy as an indulgence. Lounge at Euston, food, drink and a comfortable waiting environment there, board just before departure, spacious seat and the feeling of being waited on hand & foot while you head north, ideally arriving fat & merry at the other end. VT at one point offered other add-ons like reasonably priced limos or motorbikes to take you to/from Euston as well.
Personally, I've never travelled with Avanti, but if they've screwed up the experience aspect then it's likely they'll have removed a big chunk of their First Advance ticket buyers, which is a bit idiotic, given the majority of London - Glasgow business travel at least will probably return to the airlines, if it returns at all.

Yes, this is good point - esp since business travel will surely not return in the way it once existed - it's necessary to find ways to squeeze more out of the leisure market - which is why I think Std Premium is a good concept - but reports of that being delivered in a mixed quality manner sound less than ideal. Fine on the 2 occasion I have used it to date and will do so again when I can.

 

[Facing Back]

I agree with this - some people seem to measure the value of a first class journey by how much food and drink they can consume.

The late train was something like £35 first advance - always available the day before. And the All Bar One outside (yes it was that long ago...) would sell you a large G&T for about a tenner. The value was not too hard to measure...

But as mainly I was after the larger seat and the peace and quiet and didn't bother with the food - standard premium works for me on that, I won't pay the difference for first unless there is a good reason for it.

 

[Skie]

Have been on a few Avanti services over the last week and none of them had the service working, and visiting https://avantimedia.uk/ was always acting as if you were not using the onboard wifi. Something is broken somewhere.