The end of Ipswich - Peterbough service?

[oliMw]

It was reported briefly on Look East tonight and there is also an article in the Ipswich star reporting on the possible ending of the direct Ipswich to Peterborough services. The diversion of the Norwich - Liverpool Lime Street service to Cambridge and a new Norwich - Peterborough Service.

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/s...h_peterborough_rail_link_1_3884827?usurv=skip

The chamber backs a proposal in Suffolk County Council’s Suffolk Rail Prospectus for an hourly service on the Ipswich-Peterborough route, on which trains currently run only every two hours.

But the Department for Transport’s consultation document on the new rail franchise for East Anglia which is due to come into force in October 2016 not only fails to include any improvement in frequency but suggests that the service should terminate at Ely, where passengers to and from Ipswich would have to change trains.

In a section outlining plans for improving rail links between Cambridge and the north of England, the document says that the Rail Executive is assessing whether the current Liverpool to Norwich service run by East Midlands Trains should be diverted to Cambridge, with the replacement East Anglia franchise including a new hourly service between Norwich and Peterborough instead.

And it reveals that this assessment also includes a “sub-option” under which the current Ipswich to Peterborough service would be limited to Ely, where it would connect with the new Norwich-Peterborough service.

 

[samuelmorris]

As a friend of someone who uses that service that's very disappointing. I was really rather hoping upcoming rolling stock cascades would allow for it being raised to 1tph. Doing Clacton to York is basically going to mean going via London now to be viable I suspect.

 

[306024]

With the success of the hourly Norwich - Cambridge and Ipswich - Cambridge services, the only missing bit of the jigsaw is an hourly Ipswich - Peterborough service. This idea scuppers that.

Ely - Cambridge is a really busy corridor. Something better than a 2 car 158 would be required for some trains, even though these would be additional to the current pattern of services.

 

[Class 170101]

Ely - Cambridge is a really busy corridor. Something better than a 2 car 158 would be required for some trains, even though these would be additional to the current pattern of services.

If thats the sole issue then the easy way to solve that will be extra electric services between Ely and Cambridge. This would satisfy the Fen Line users as well if a half hourly service can be pathed over the single leads and single lines to Kings Lynn too plus ensuring the power supply is upto the job.

However I think its more of an issue to get the East / West Cross Country services improved. Its reasonable easy to travel south to north across the country, not so easy with east to west services since the break up of Central Trains.

 

[cle]

If thats the sole issue then the easy way to solve that will be extra electric services between Ely and Cambridge. This would satisfy the Fen Line users as well if a half hourly service can be pathed over the single leads and single lines to Kings Lynn too plus ensuring the power supply is upto the job.

However I think its more of an issue to get the East / West Cross Country services improved. Its reasonable easy to travel south to north across the country, not so easy with east to west services since the break up of Central Trains.

That is planned for Thameslink (a second Kings Lynn with a faster stopping pattern) - the new Cambridge Science Park station will also see some other services extended to there on this corridor.

 

[LateThanNever]

It was reported briefly on Look East tonight and there is also an article in the Ipswich star reporting on the possible ending of the direct Ipswich to Peterborough services. The diversion of the Norwich - Liverpool Lime Street service to Cambridge and a new Norwich - Peterborough Service.

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/s...h_peterborough_rail_link_1_3884827?usurv=skip

Isn't it to do with Network Rail's ideas on "Improving Connectivity" viz:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/long-term-planning-process/improving-connectivity.pdf

 

[158756]

Isn't it to do with Network Rail's ideas on "Improving Connectivity" viz:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/long-term-planning-process/improving-connectivity.pdf

I believe this is part of the Greater Anglia franchise consultation, which surprisingly doesn't appear to have its own thread yet.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/east-anglia-rail-passenger-franchise

 

[samuelmorris]

Oh wow, double-whammy for Clacton residents there then. No direct service to London and four trains to Peterborough rather than just three like now (Making it five vs four to use the ECML, 6 vs 5 if travelling to somewhere Peterborough doesn't directly serve, e.g. smaller stations in Yorkshire). I don't consider cross-platform interchange a 'direct service' - not if I would, for sake of argument, have to retrieve luggage, get out of my seat and onto another train. Especially not if delays/cancellations etc. mean the two halves stop synchronising, which let's face it, will happen.

 

[ashworth]

Why does Cambridge need improved rail links to the North of England more than Norwich? Improving rail links from Cambridge to the North of England is a good idea but surely not by removing the links from Norwich. What will the people of Norwich think of this? Have the people who want more trains to serve Cambridge looked at the bigger picture and how it will affect other longer distance travel opportunities and connectivity especially from Norwich?

If the other rumours are true and the EMT Norwich-Liverpool service was to be split at Nottingham when the TPE/Northern franchise is reorganised, what is the point of diverting the remaining Nottingham- Norwich section of the route to Cambridge. That doesn't really do much to improve links between Cambridge and the North of England.
However, it would mean that passengers from Norwich who currently have an hourly through service to Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool will then need to change trains twice to reach these destinations. I'm not really in favour of the Norwich to Liverpool route being split at Nottingham and I hope it does not happen. There are many passengers who remain on these trains to pass through Nottingham. Do all of these people and passengers from Nottingham itself actually want to go to Cambridge rather than Norwich. Perhaps all of the routes between East Anglia and the Midlands and North need reviewing not just diverting everything to Cambridge. Norwich/Cambridge to Birmingham/Liverpool perhaps more variety of destinations served is needed from both Cambridge and Norwich.

Cambridge already has an hourly service beyond Peterborough to Birmingham via Leicester. Is it fair to Norwich passengers to take away their through service beyond Peterborough and give it to Cambridge instead. Doesn't Norwich also need good rail links to stations in the North of England?

 

[Class 170101]

Said report also being discussed here

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=109554

 

[edwin_m]

There's a piece in Modern Railways suggesting a Nottingham to Cambridge and Norwich train splitting/joining at Ely.

 

[tbtc]

I thought that Ipswich – Peterborough was just every couple of hours at the moment? So, an hourly Ipswich – Newmarket service times to meet an hourly Newmarket – Peterborough service would double the journey opportunities between the two towns?

Why does Cambridge need improved rail links to the North of England more than Norwich? Improving rail links from Cambridge to the North of England is a good idea but surely not by removing the links from Norwich. What will the people of Norwich think of this? Have the people who want more trains to serve Cambridge looked at the bigger picture and how it will affect other longer distance travel opportunities and connectivity especially from Norwich?

If the other rumours are true and the EMT Norwich-Liverpool service was to be split at Nottingham when the TPE/Northern franchise is reorganised, what is the point of diverting the remaining Nottingham- Norwich section of the route to Cambridge. That doesn't really do much to improve links between Cambridge and the North of England.
However, it would mean that passengers from Norwich who currently have an hourly through service to Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool will then need to change trains twice to reach these destinations. I'm not really in favour of the Norwich to Liverpool route being split at Nottingham and I hope it does not happen. There are many passengers who remain on these trains to pass through Nottingham. Do all of these people and passengers from Nottingham itself actually want to go to Cambridge rather than Norwich. Perhaps all of the routes between East Anglia and the Midlands and North need reviewing not just diverting everything to Cambridge. Norwich/Cambridge to Birmingham/Liverpool perhaps more variety of destinations served is needed from both Cambridge and Norwich.

Cambridge already has an hourly service beyond Peterborough to Birmingham via Leicester. Is it fair to Norwich passengers to take away their through service beyond Peterborough and give it to Cambridge instead. Doesn't Norwich also need good rail links to stations in the North of England?

Is there any reason why Stansted needs services to the “Midlands” whilst Norwich needs services to the “North”? Or is it just a case of “it’s currently like that for operational convenience”?

At the moment, the Birmingham – Stansted service is horribly busy from Birmingham to Leicester (two cities which really ought to have a significantly better service than they currently do, but there doesn’t seem to be the same fuss made about this connectivity compared to all of the noise/heat generated re Manchester to Leeds), because AIUI the service length is limited due to the platform space available at Stansted (?). As the Leicester “shorts” currently interwork with the full distance duties, all diagrams are essentially constrained by this one “short” platform. The tail wagging the dog.

Running a Nottingham – Stansted service with a two/three coach DMU should be able to cope with capacity okay (it’s generally just two coaches from Nottingham to Ely/Norwich at the moment) and cope with infrastructure okay, allowing a Birmingham – Norwich service to be increased to four/five coaches.

If the proposal is:

1. Split the current Liverpool – Norwich service at Nottingham
2. Run six coach services from Liverpool to Nottingham (e.g. doubled up 185s)
3. Run two/three coach 100mph DMUs like Turbostars from Nottingham to Stansted (better able to take advantage of the line speed on the ECML south of Grantham, and therefore slightly easier to path than a 90mph 158)
4. Run four/five coach DMUs from Birmingham to Norwich (allowing additional capacity at Leicester)

...then I think that’s an improvement on what we currently have.

For links between Stansted and “the north”, there’s scope for direct services to places like Leeds once HS2 frees up capacity on the ECML in the longer term.

 

[Aictos]

Didn't there used to be Birmingham to Norwich and Liverpool to Stansted services until someone changed the workings to Birmingham to Stansted and Liverpool to Norwich?

 

[dk1]

Didn't there used to be Birmingham to Norwich and Liverpool to Stansted services until someone changed the workings to Birmingham to Stansted and Liverpool to Norwich?

That happened officially in the early 90s when it was decided that Traincrew would work beyond Peterborough. Purely on a cost basis Cambridge crews signed Birmingham & Norwich crews signed Nottingham. Only odd services survived & these encountered crew changes en-route but where discontinued ready for the Central Trains split to XC/EMs.