The future of London City Airport

[londonteacher]

I think that Heathrow Airport will be a viable option for folk that would use City Airport when Crossrail gets up and running. In which case, is City Airport needed at all? Plentt of land for housing and a DLR station already there. Maybe one for the Aviation forum

So, on another thread the future of London City Airport came up.

If fewer people return to the city and Canary Wharf would there be much of a use for it? Currently, the airport is being redeveloped.

I predict the airport will return to normal, but to keep passengers number up should more leisure destinations be served catering for the mini-break markets allowing people from east London to benefit from an airport that makes weekend breaks more viable with shorter journeys afterward. I live in Plumstead and could be at the airport 15 minutes from my house.

London City Airport offers direct links via the DLR from Stratford (22 minutes), West Ham (12 minutes), Shadwell (20 minutes), Bank (21 minutes), Beckton (1 change at Canning Town in 27 minutes), Dartford (1 change at Woolwich Arsenal in 30 minutes).

The current flights according to Wikipedia are as follows:

 

[Howardh]

I've never found a flight Manchester > London City and would use it if available (and right price). Tried Skyscanner just now and nothing direct in October or November.

 

[londonteacher]

I've never found a flight Manchester > London City and would use it if available (and right price). Tried Skyscanner just now and nothing direct in October or November.

That's the thing. Currently, the flights are not very useful for the normal consumer as they tend to be tailored towards the business market. I suspect that the Manchester direct flights are currently only from LHR due to Covid.

 

[thejuggler]

I did MAN LCY many years ago on VLM to attend an event at Excel. Most of the passengers were going to the same event and the timings meant a proper full day, rather than taking time out of the day to cross from north London to Docklands.

 

[Howardh]

I did MAN LCY many years ago on VLM to attend an event at Excel. Most of the passengers were going to the same event and the timings meant a proper full day, rather than taking time out of the day to cross from north London to Docklands.

Yes, I remember years ago a flight Manchester - Antwerp was scheduled to call and drop off/pick up pax at London City. Can't remember the airline, it was very small and flew turbo-prop, and also didn't call at LCY on the return. Maybe passport regulations or something?

 

[Chester1]

The biggest threat to London City Airport is not changes in the aviation market but the land it is on. It was clear the last time it was sold that most of the value of the company was the airport land and not the business. Compulsory purchasing the airport land (and dock) and leasing back for a medium term period e.g. 10 years, would be a good move by the government if it wanted a huge development project to help reduce London's housing crisis. The airport will still be useful but its not really needed now and will be less useful after Crossrail eventually opens.

 

[mmh]

I've never found a flight Manchester > London City and would use it if available (and right price). Tried Skyscanner just now and nothing direct in October or November.

I've flown Manchester to London City once. Not through choice, a day before BA cancelled my flight to Gatwick and that was the best alternative.

Which is a downside of airlines flying to multiple airports "in" one city - I was going to Gatwick because I wasn't going to London!

 

[thejuggler]

Yes, I remember years ago a flight Manchester - Antwerp was scheduled to call and drop off/pick up pax at London City. Can't remember the airline, it was very small and flew turbo-prop, and also didn't call at LCY on the return. Maybe passport regulations or something?

Probably VLM. They flew Fokker 50s out of Antwerp. Definately a return though as it got me back to Manchester!

 

[EssexGonzo]

Have used the LCY to MAN flight many times in the past. Wife's family live in Bolton and if she and the kids went up north for a weekend, I'd fly later on Friday evening straight from work. IIRC, I used to get the flight for less than £50 - easier and cheaper than the train.

In respect of LCY airport, their comms and rhetoric are certainly punchy right now regarding the investment and upgrades. Their leisure split last year was about 50% (up from 35% in previous years) so if they keep on moving in that direction, they could have a secure future offering easy, hassle-free access to short haul flights for leisure purposes. I'd use them more if I was flying any time soon, which I'm not planning to. I used to use them for work many times. Much less stressful than Gatwick/Stansted.

I see they have 10 departures today which is an increase on the two per day last time I looked.

 

[eoff]

Even if LHR has better (cheaper/fast?) connections you may still pay the holding and taxi time tax which can add significantly to journey times.

LCY is nice to land at, not so much if you can't climb stairs.
It would be a lot nicer if the ongoing work can improve a few things:

• No annoying up/down steps from arrival to terminal core
• Airside transfer
• More room! Departures can be uncomfortably busy on weekday evenings

 

[takno]

I think this plays to the fallacy that long distance travel will fall because of less office working. Long distance business travel is likely to rise as people feel more comfortable living further from the office. In any case the people who lose their desk in the city will be the drone level staff, and not the people being visited from further afield. If anything I'd say that City Airport's business travel future looks rather rosier than before

 

[Ianno87]

I think this plays to the fallacy that long distance travel will fall because of less office working. Long distance business travel is likely to rise as people feel more comfortable living further from the office. In any case the people who lose their desk in the city will be the drone level staff, and not the people being visited from further afield. If anything I'd say that City Airport's business travel future looks rather rosier than before

The City/Square Mile/Canary Wharf will always have the benefits of "agglomeration"; i.e. the central location of excellence and expertise where people will want to meet in person, do deals, build relationships, etc. That can't possibly be replicated via working from home in perpetuity.

 

[telstarbox]

That's true, but unless you have back to back meetings all week there's nothing to stop you working from home for say two/three days and doing the rest in the office or with your clients.

 

[takno]

That's true, but unless you have back to back meetings all week there's nothing to stop you working from home for say two/three days and doing the rest in the office or with your clients.

Absolutely, but from the point of view of City Airport, those meetings are at least as likely as now to be in Canary Wharf or the City. Possibly just as importantly, if people are doing the commuting two days a week instead of five, then longer more expensive modes of commuting like air travel are back on the table. In the context of this thread, the chances of City Airport suddenly freeing up capacity for leisure flights or acting as a local airport for the residents of east London are minimal

 

[BananaRepublic]

I've never found a flight Manchester > London City and would use it if available (and right price). Tried Skyscanner just now and nothing direct in October or November.

.......I suspect that the Manchester direct flights are currently only from LHR due to Covid.

Yes, I remember years ago a flight Manchester - Antwerp was scheduled to call and drop off/pick up pax at London City. Can't remember the airline, it was very small and flew turbo-prop, and also didn't call at LCY on the return. Maybe passport regulations or something?

Probably VLM. They flew Fokker 50s out of Antwerp. Definately a return though as it got me back to Manchester!

VLM flew Manchester to LCY in the 00’s, using Fokker 50’s
Initially twice a day, which went up to 3 times a day.
The disruption caused by the WCML upgrade during that decade, saw a big increase in the number of flights London - Manchester.
VLM eventually increased their LCY-MAN frequency to 5x a day, M-F during that period.

At the peak, M-F.....
LHR-MAN BA 12x a day + BM 7x a day
LGW-MAN BA 7x a day
LCY-MAN VLM 5x a day
STN-MAN BA Regional 2x a day (using ATP’s)

The completion of the WCML upgrade and the introduction of the VWC Pendolino service, with faster timings and more services, reduced the demand for point to point air travel between the two cities.
The financial crash of 2008, subsequently reducing the number of flights by almost half.
VLM pulled off the route completely around this time.

There hasn’t been a scheduled service between LCY and MAN since, except for the last couple of summers, when BA have sold seats on the BA Cityflyer positioning flights on Friday and Sunday evenings, when they’ve moved an aircraft from LCY to MAN for the weekend, to operate some holiday flights from the latter airport.

 

[Robertj21a]

The City/Square Mile/Canary Wharf will always have the benefits of "agglomeration"; i.e. the central location of excellence and expertise where people will want to meet in person, do deals, build relationships, etc. That can't possibly be replicated via working from home in perpetuity.

True, but the volumes of such activities could well fall by, say, 50%. That could result in lower frequencies and insufficient airport activity to cover the unavoidable overheads.

 

[takno]

True, but the volumes of such activities could well fall by, say, 50%. That could result in lower frequencies and insufficient airport activity to cover the unavoidable overheads.

Why do you imagine those activities will fall at all? Even if home working does increase, those activities will increase with it, and without the everyday commuters getting in the way they will become more focused on specific places. The city and Canary Wharf are extremely likely to be two of those places.

 

[Butts]

I am flying Business Class from LCY to Berlin and back with my son in early October for a mini-break (FCO permitting).

Most disconcerted to find their is no Lounge or FT Security

However it is an Embraer so I can forgive BA !!

 

[Meerkat]

I am flying Business Class from LCY to Berlin and back with my son in early October for a mini-break (FCO permitting).

Most disconcerted to find their is no Lounge or FT Security

However it is an Embraer so I can forgive BA !!

It is FCDO now.....

 

[londonteacher]

I am flying Business Class from LCY to Berlin and back with my son in early October for a mini-break (FCO permitting).

Most disconcerted to find their is no Lounge or FT Security

However it is an Embraer so I can forgive BA !!

In fairness, you won't be airside long enough to need a lounge and the security lines are usually small/non-existant!

 

[nlogax]

Using LCY the weekend after next. I've not flown through it since February and I'm wondering how quiet it'll be on a Sunday lunchtime in the current climate.. actually I should put some money on my flight being cancelled and my being rebooked onto a LHR flight instead.

 

[Howardh]

Using LCY the weekend after next. I've not flown through it since February and I'm wondering how quiet it'll be on a Sunday lunchtime in the current climate.. actually I should put some money on my flight being cancelled and my being rebooked onto a LHR flight instead.

If going via LHR caused you greater expense - ie if you lived close to LCY and getting to Heathrow was more expensive, would they compensate you? When a flight's gone/returned to a different airport than scheduled, (ie the Thomas Cook failure) the airline's always found a coach to the destination.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If going via LHR caused you greater expense - ie if you lived close to LCY and getting to Heathrow was more expensive, would they compensate you? When a flight's gone/returned to a different airport than scheduled, (ie the Thomas Cook failure) the airline's always found a coach to the destination.

They should provide transport to the original airport if they do that, though in most peoples' case (unless they live in the Docklands) they are likely to decline it.

 

[nlogax]

If going via LHR caused you greater expense - ie if you lived close to LCY and getting to Heathrow was more expensive, would they compensate you? When a flight's gone/returned to a different airport than scheduled, (ie the Thomas Cook failure) the airline's always found a coach to the destination.

Tbh although I live on the same side of town as LHR, transport up through that whole swathe of SW London isn't great and it's often been less hassle to just go via LCY instead. I should have been clearer, where BA have cancelled LCY flights on me there's never been an offer of transport.. I've rebooked myself at zero cost onto one of the given alternatives at LHR or LGW and that's that.

 

[JN114]

Tbh although I live on the same side of town as LHR, transport up through that whole swathe of SW London isn't great and it's often been less hassle to just go via LCY instead. I should have been clearer, where BA have cancelled LCY flights on me there's never been an offer of transport.. I've rebooked myself at zero cost onto one of the given alternatives at LHR or LGW and that's that.

I was due to fly LCY <> VCE this summer (booked this time last year), over the course of a few weeks in April BA cancelled first the outward, then return leg. Was offered equivalent class flights from LHR or LGW at zero extra cost (LCY had been cheaper when booking, LHR would by far be the easier airport for me). I rebooked the first, when the return leg was cancelled I cancelled the whole return (at no cost) and currently have a fat BA voucher for use at some point in the future. At no point however did BA make any offer of alternative arrangements to get from LCY to LHR and vv.