The HST's with buffers?

[truckman060473]

Was just wondering about the class 43's fitted with buffers. You can see them in use with Grand Central. Some Virgin 43's in the past 10 or so years had buffers. How many of the class had them fitted, and for what purpose? Obviously it makes a loco rescue simple to couple up, but the majority of the class just made do with the central coupling hidden behind the bodywork.

 

[IanXC]

They were fitted to 8 BR Eastern Region 43s in 1987 and used in place of the Mk4 DVTs, with Mk3 coaches as the Mk4 coaches and DVTs werent ready in time for the arrival of the 89s and 91s with East Coast electrification.

They had remote operation equipment fitted so as to be able to fill in for the DVTs and control the 89/91 at the other end of the train, I guess the buffers were fitted for marshaling reasons. Rather a backwards version of the equipment W&S fitted to their 67s. All the powercars then returned to the 125 fleet.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Source of first hand info can be found on Dave Coxon's excellent site here: http://www.traintesting.com/IC225.htm

 

[Electrostar]

This brings back memories. I can't remember if all of the buffer-fitted power cars were in IC Swallow livery by then or if some were still in IC Executive but I do recall at least one having a full yellow front.

I also remember how much more exciting I found the blunt cab of the 91 compared to the streamlined end. I must have been a strange child!

Slightly related to the original post I remember visiting Kings Cross in the early to mid-80s and seeing blue HST power cars stood by the station buffer stops with their front hatches raised and pipes trailing from them. What was this for? I don't recall seeing it in recent times.

 

[rail-britain]

Six were initially modified and repainted into INTERCITY livery
The idea was that the HST power car would be at one end, with Mark 3 coaches, and then the Class 91 loco
However this restricted the Class 91 loco to running in one direction only
As a result a further two were modified, taking it to eight, but these were not repainted, the existing InterCity livery was modified
This then allowed the rake of coaches to have a HST power car at each end
A final three were modified, but did not have the buffers fitted, and ironically one of them was never used for testing
These three were used for final testing of the second batch of Class 91 locos

The fitting of buffers was to reduce the risk of blocking the ECML in the event of train failure, as it takes time to apply the emergency drawbar
Furthermore, the Class 91 could run round and attach directly to the HST power car, with greater ease
With the extension of the testing such that the rakes had two HST power cars, it also meant the Class 91 could run round and haul or push the set in either direction, as well as pairing up HST power cars to haul or push Mark 4 coaches
http://www.traintesting.com/images/HSTs_with_test_train_at_Heaton1.jpg
http://www.traintesting.com/images/Test train at unknown.jpg

The HST cab also has an additional panel, to raise and lower the pantograph on the Class 91 loco, as well as warning lights for loss of TDM control and brake pressure

 

[At_traction]

And of course the HSDT prototype train had powercars with buffers to start with...

Don't know the veracity of the claim, but from what I've read it was the designer brought into the project who first inquired BREL about whether the buffers were actually needed at all and were subsequently removed from the production units.

 

[mallard]

the Mk4 coaches and DVTs werent ready in time for the arrival of the 89s and 91s with East Coast electrification.
/QUOTE]

You mean the 89. There has only ever been one.

 

[sprinterguy]

This brings back memories. I can't remember if all of the buffer-fitted power cars were in IC Swallow livery by then or if some were still in IC Executive but I do recall at least one having a full yellow front.

Slightly related to the original post I remember visiting Kings Cross in the early to mid-80s and seeing blue HST power cars stood by the station buffer stops with their front hatches raised and pipes trailing from them. What was this for? I don't recall seeing it in recent times.

The cables provided a shore supply for the HSTs electrical systems such as the lighting, and was introduced when the HSTs arrived on the East Coast. I don't know but it might have allowed for the power cars to be shut down when stabled for a long period of time. I suppose it was removed when the ECML was electrified at the end of the 80s and there were far fewer HST operated services as the core route went over to 225 electric operation, and so having a permanent three phase shore supply available was no longer necessary.

On the subject of buffer fitted powercars, 43123 and 43014 were the first two powercars released, and carried Intercity Executive livery, but with the addition of full yellow fronts. The remaining six received Intercity swallow livery when released from conversion, starting with 43084, and at least 43067 and 43068 had full yellow ends on ths livery. All eight powercars eventually graduated onto Crosscountry services by the time Virgin arrived on the scene, as the super-long distance routes operated by Crosscountry benefitted most from having power cars that could easily be rescued using he conventional drawgear. Now, 6 power cars are operated by Grand Central, and the other two power Network Rails' NMT.

 

[truckman060473]

many thanks for people's input on this. a very interesting read.

 

[LE Greys]

IIRC, one of them did 154mph down Stoke on test, 6mph faster than the fastest HST run, 148. This was mostly to prove that the Electras could do the full 140 in safety, I suppose. Therefore, the ECML holds the world steam record, the world diesel record and the world electro-diesel record Having 8,550hp on tap probably helped.

 

[sprinterguy]

IIRC, one of them did 154mph down Stoke on test, 6mph faster than the fastest HST run, 148. This was mostly to prove that the Electras could do the full 140 in safety, I suppose. Therefore, the ECML holds the world steam record, the world diesel record and the world electro-diesel record Having 8,550hp on tap probably helped.

Could you prechance provide more info about that? The only reported 154mph run down Stoke Bank with an Electra that I know about occured on a press run in 1994/5, which involved loco 91031 (I think) and a shortened five carriage mark 4 rake with mk 4 DVT on the rear.

On a slight tangent, the fastest recorded speed a class 91 has reached is 162mph early on during testing, once again on a five carriage rake, but possibly not mark 4s.

 

[90019]

On a slight tangent, the fastest recorded speed a class 91 has reached is 162mph early on during testing, once again on a five carriage rake, but possibly not mark 4s.

It was 91110 (91010 at the time) in September 89 with Mk4s and the DVT leading.

 

[O L Leigh]

The HST DVT's as they were known, originally ran trials on the WCML with the first of the TDM fitted Cl86's and a scratch rake of redundant Mk2's. This was simply to test the operation of the TDM.

O L Leigh

 

[sprinterguy]

It was 91110 (91010 at the time) in September 89 with Mk4s and the DVT leading.

Thanks for the confirmation, I had a feeling it was 91010.

 

[LE Greys]

Could you prechance provide more info about that? The only reported 154mph run down Stoke Bank with an Electra that I know about occured on a press run in 1994/5, which involved loco 91031 (I think) and a shortened five carriage mark 4 rake with mk 4 DVT on the rear.

On a slight tangent, the fastest recorded speed a class 91 has reached is 162mph early on during testing, once again on a five carriage rake, but possibly not mark 4s.

Originally read about it in Electrifying the East Coast Main Line by Peter Semmens. Not sure if Stevenage Library still has the book, but I'm almost certain that it was 154. The 162 was almost certainly with MkIVs, MkIIIs might not be entirely safe at that speed and an HST power car certainly would not (at 37mph over rated maximum), and may have been DVT-leading. However, I always thought it was 161, because for some reason they decided it was a bad idea to exceed the APT's record of 162 down Beattock.

 

[90019]

The 162 was almost certainly with MkIVs ... and may have been DVT-leading.

See my post above

However, I always thought it was 161, because for some reason they decided it was a bad idea to exceed the APT's record of 162 down Beattock.

IIRC, it was something like 0.4mph slower.

 

[LE Greys]

See my post above

Can't have scrolled down far enough.

IIRC, it was something like 0.4mph slower.

That's interesting. Why? Surely it would have been better to exceed the current British record (I'm sure they held back deliberately for some reason).