The Humberrail system

[NoMorePacers]

This thread is very Crayonista, so beware!

I've been toying for a bit with the idea of giving Humberside a Merseyrail-style third rail metro network, since I think it would be quite an interesting idea (plus it might have some uses IRL).

I've taken a screencap from Google Maps and drawn two main lines going from places in East Yorkshire to other places in East Yorkshire/Northern Lincolnshire through the centre of Hull. The map is attached below.

There are two lines:
The Eastern Line, which is loosely (and I emphasise the word loosely here) based off of the Merseyrail Northern Line - stretching from Hornsea and Withernsea in the east on the old BR alignments (roughly), going in new tunnels underneath the centre of Hull, and then heading out towards Brough, where the line then splits off into 3 branches - to Market Weighton via South Cave, and to Selby and Goole via Howden, although with new tunnels being dug under Howden town centre to put the station in a better location.

The Humber Line, loosely (again I emphasise the word loosely) based on the Wirral Line over in Liverpool - which goes from York and Bridlington in the north, down through Beverley and into new tunnels through the centre of Hull, and into a tunnel going underneath the Humber, and through to Barton-upon-Humber, where 4 branches diverge. One to Scunthorpe via Winterton, one to Brigg, one to Humberside Airport, and one to Grimsby and Cleethorpes.

Each branch would receive at least a 2tph schedule (with scope built in to increase it to 3 or 4 for the busier lines) and each service would serve all stations.

In terms of rolling stock, it would have a mixture. Some EMUs of BR 1972 PEP design (classified as 509s - essentially the same as the 507s and 508s), and some more EMUs of BR Networker design (classified as 511s - pretty much Metro-Cammell 465s but with just 3 coaches.

What do you all think of my extremely fantasy idea? Could it get any more unrealistic?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Very elaborate, but I think a network such as this might be more suited to tramlines.

 

[tasky]

It looks like you've mostly used out of use alignments, which makes sense. (Though there are a few additions - see below)

I do wonder whether such a system would be more likely to use the existing line to Selby though? You seem to have built a largely parallel route out west

 

[NoMorePacers]

It looks like you've mostly used out of use alignments, which makes sense. (Though there are a few additions - see below)

I do wonder whether such a system would be more likely to use the existing line to Selby though? You seem to have built a largely parallel route out west

View attachment 69790

That might be at least partially a consequence of my not-so-great drawing skills, although I wanted to reroute the trains to go through a new station closer to Howden town centre, instead of the current one which is in relative terms further away.

Those sections of the line (from just outside of Hull towards Selby) would probably use the former 4 track alignments on that line. That would make sense.

 

[Killingworth]

What's the priority? Any one of these would cost more than would ever be likely to be considered.

However a recent opportunity may have been missed when the new 5 km National Grid cross Humber tunnel was being planned from Paull to carry the gas pipeline. If that had been built to include a rail connection to the Barton Line near Goxhill and down to Grimsby...... it would still be in the planning stage for another 15 years, at least!

Look at how long it's taking to reopen a freight line for passenger services towards Ashington and Blyth.

Nice ideas though.

 

[NoMorePacers]

What's the priority? Any one of these would cost more than would ever be likely to be considered.

However a recent opportunity may have been missed when the new 5 km National Grid cross Humber tunnel was being planned from Paull to carry the gas pipeline. If that had been built to include a rail connection to the Barton Line near Goxhill and down to Grimsby...... it would still be in the planning stage for another 15 years, at least!

Look at how long it's taking to reopen a freight line for passenger services towards Ashington and Blyth.

Nice ideas though.

I know these ideas would never happen realistically - I just thought it would be a fun thing to toy around with.

I agree that it would cost an utter bomb and would take an extremely long time to build however.

 

[Ayman Ilham]

Could a direct Hull to Lincoln service be viable? Like a direct railway line across Humber Bridge that goes straight down via Scunthorpe? Afterwards, East Midlands could extend their Peterborough to Lincoln services to Hull via Scunthorpe! I am aware there are bus links by Stagecoach (InterConnect 100 and Humber FastCat 350) but they probably take too long!

 

[NoMorePacers]

Could a direct Hull to Lincoln service be viable? Like a direct railway line across Humber Bridge that goes straight down via Scunthorpe? Afterwards, East Midlands could extend their Peterborough to Lincoln services to Hull via Scunthorpe! I am aware there are bus links by Stagecoach (InterConnect 100 and Humber FastCat 350) but they probably take too long!

Considering this would be an all-stops metro service, Hull to Lincoln would probably take too much time to be viable, even with a relatively high frequency. I'm not sure if the Humber Bridge could take a rail line with a road link as well.

It's a nice idea though!

 

[Ploughman]

The line out of York would be better coming off the Scarborough line to outside the ring rd, then paralleling the ring road until it picks up the original alignment of the York - Beverley route.
This would miss the built up areas built since line closure.

 

[lachlan]

I have family in Beverley, so would be very happy to see the York to Beverley line reopen. Right now the bus takes 1hr30mins, any idea how fast York to Beverley and York to Hull would be were the line reopened? It would mean Beverley is much easier to access from the north, though I'm not sure if York to Hull would be quicker than it is today.

 

[NoMorePacers]

I have family in Beverley, so would be very happy to see the York to Beverley line reopen. Right now the bus takes 1hr30mins, any idea how fast York to Beverley and York to Hull would be were the line reopened? It would mean Beverley is much easier to access from the north, though I'm not sure if York to Hull would be quicker than it is today.

York-Hull nowadays is about an hour/hour and a half, and I think from Beverley would be about the same amount of time. I wouldn't place a bet on it however.

The line out of York would be better coming off the Scarborough line to outside the ring rd, then paralleling the ring road until it picks up the original alignment of the York - Beverley route.
This would miss the built up areas built since line closure.

On reflection, that seems like it would be a better alignment to take.

 

[PTR 444]

I think this network would be better off as a series of tram rather than heavy rail lines. In particular, the line crossing the Humber could take over one of the carriageways of the lightly used Humber Bridge instead of a new crossing which would be ridiculously expensive to build.

 

[John Griffiths]

Howden is very small - would any extra traffic generated by a new station which requires tunnelling justify the huge expenditure? Plus tunnelling might destabilise the Minster church. More connectivity for Goole would be a good thing, and what about connections beyond Cleethorpes to Lincolnshire coast towns - perhaps even to Skegness and points south?