Ticket barriers in Glasgow

[Failed Unit]

At last it seems like transport Scotland are going to put barriers up at Charing cross and Anderston (sorry if spelling is wrong the station nr M8 on on the Glasgow central low level route)

Hopefully the flex-pass fraud will drop as a result.

Be interested to see how the do Charing cross to cover the lifts as well not block the retail output.

The will have the problems of course as SPT passes won't activate the barriers, seem to be a lot of them so surprised this still has not got addressed. But at the moment Charing cross is a fare dodgers dream.

 

[me123]

Be interested to see how the do Charing cross to cover the lifts as well not block the retail output.

The will have the problems of course as SPT passes won't activate the barriers, seem to be a lot of them so surprised this still has not got addressed. But at the moment Charing cross is a fare dodgers dream.

Charing Cross is a joke. They can't currently guard the lifts, so people who don't have a ticket for whatever reason will just stand and wait for a lift to avoid paying the fare. Then, in the evening, they can do exactly the same again without penalty. If you don't get stopped, it could work out a lot cheaper than a season ticket. There is definitely a problem at Charing Cross; anyone who commutes through there will know that. It needs to be sorted, and barriers are the best way of doing that. I too will be interested to see just how they will work with the odd station arrangement. It would be impossible to cover both of the lifts without blocking off the retail outlet and, more importantly, the ticket office. Having the ticket office behind the barriers is a rather futile exercise! Realistically, the station should be extend out and rebuilt. This would not only make the ticket barriers easier to use, but would create a much better use of the space in general.

What I've never understood is why they didn't install barriers at Partick when it was rebuilt. Seems totally obvious. They actually have "manual" barriers there anyway for most of the rush hour.

As for the SPT passes; I'd like to see them printed on railway stock tickets so that they can activate barriers. More and more stations are getting the barriers; including Queen Street, Ayr, and now many of the other Glasgow stations; it seems perverse that they don't operate the barriers, considering just how many passengers must use them every day.

 

[142094]

Was reading in that Insight magazine from FSR that they are also planning for barriers at Central, both High and Low Levels. Went through the manual barriers at Central about five times yesterday and think my ticket was only properly checked once.

 

[rail-britain]

they are also planning for barriers at Central, both High and Low Levels. Went through the manual barriers at Central about five times yesterday and think my ticket was only properly checked once.

Yes, barriers have been planned for Central for some time
The Low Level is not an issue as the primary operator is FSR
There are still issues to be resolved with the other operators on the main station
As an example Virgin Trains staff normally assist prior to departure, but do not strictly check tickets, and Virgin Trains object to a full ticket check being imposed
The matter becomes even more of an issue with Cross Country, as there are no dedicated assistance staff prior to departure, and FSR would have to provide the staff but apparently Cross Country have refused to confirm they will cover part of this cost

The manual ticket checks are primarily to ensure the passenger at least has a ticket, to observe known fraudsters, to provide assistance and be a visible presence
The deterent factor can often be enough

 

[The_Stig]

Charing Cross is a joke. They can't currently guard the lifts, so people who don't have a ticket for whatever reason will just stand and wait for a lift to avoid paying the fare. Then, in the evening, they can do exactly the same again without penalty. If you don't get stopped, it could work out a lot cheaper than a season ticket. There is definitely a problem at Charing Cross; anyone who commutes through there will know that. It needs to be sorted, and barriers are the best way of doing that. I too will be interested to see just how they will work with the odd station arrangement. It would be impossible to cover both of the lifts without blocking off the retail outlet and, more importantly, the ticket office. Having the ticket office behind the barriers is a rather futile exercise! Realistically, the station should be extend out and rebuilt. This would not only make the ticket barriers easier to use, but would create a much better use of the space in general.

They may box in the ticket office and just close it. If they have barriers they will need someone to man them similar to Queen st. They could also be used to sell tickets.

What I've never understood is why they didn't install barriers at Partick when it was rebuilt. Seems totally obvious. They actually have "manual" barriers there anyway for most of the rush hour.

I agree, no arrival/departure screens when you enter the station! Sorry there is, for the buses outside!

 

[Failed Unit]

Yes, barriers have been planned for Central for some time
The Low Level is not an issue as the primary operator is FSR
There are still issues to be resolved with the other operators on the main station
As an example Virgin Trains staff normally assist prior to departure, but do not strictly check tickets, and Virgin Trains object to a full ticket check being imposed
The matter becomes even more of an issue with Cross Country, as there are no dedicated assistance staff prior to departure, and FSR would have to provide the staff but apparently Cross Country have refused to confirm they will cover part of this cost

The manual ticket checks are primarily to ensure the passenger at least has a ticket, to observe known fraudsters, to provide assistance and be a visible presence
The deterent factor can often be enough

Surely the solution here is simple, just don't barrier platforms 1 & 2 and do the rest of the station. This is where most of the long distance trains use anyway. (sometimes they will use 9 & 10 but that is very rare). If a Scotrail train happens to use one of these platforms then just do a manual block just like the do at Wavelerly when a Scotrail service is obstructing one of the through platforms like 2, 11 & 19 {forcing the IC service onto the totally unsuitable 8 & 9}

Strange Virgin's view point when they use Waverley and often end up in what I consider the Scotrail bit 12-18. The also use Haymarket which is totally barriered. As for XC, well if Scotrail do the barrier they take the commission.

 

[rail-britain]

Strange Virgin's view point when they use Waverley

Yes, but the platforms with barriers are mainly used by ScotRail, Virgin Trains rarely use these

At Glasgow Central non-FSR services can pretty much use any platform, but as you rightly pointed out this is mainly Platforms 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 10, and 11
Virgin Trains are not happy at the first point of contact being a member of staff from FSR
XC have also raised a similar concern
As I understand it East Coast have not (suggesting the timescale involved) and neither have FTPE (quite understandable though)

 

[Failed Unit]

Yes, but the platforms with barriers are mainly used by ScotRail, Virgin Trains rarely use these

At Glasgow Central non-FSR services can pretty much use any platform, but as you rightly pointed out this is mainly Platforms 1, 2, 3, and 9
Virgin Trains are not happy at the first point of contact being a member of staff from FSR
XC have also raised a similar concern
As I understand it East Coast have not (suggesting the timescale involved) and neither have FTPE (quite understandable though)

I know the Voyagers don't have that issue so I can see your point, but don't the pendo's only fit on certain platforms?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I know the Voyagers don't have that issue so I can see your point, but don't the pendo's only fit on certain platforms?

I've only ever seen them (and East Coast's 225s) on plat 1 and 2 and maybe, just maybe, might have seen a pendo on Plat 3.

But conversely, there is very little, if any, use of plats 1 & 2 by local services during busy times, so barriers there could be exclusively for managing access to/from those 2 long distance operators (or, after May, 3 with EC being just one per day).

 

[CarterUSM]

They will comfortably fit on platform 11 also, and do use it occasionally. 9 and 10 also if I recall, though less so. I had thought the other operators concerns had been put to bed now, at my last briefing the only outstanding issue of note we were told was planning consent, with a number of bodies, historical and others ,being consulted.

 

[Failed Unit]

I've only ever seen them (and East Coast's 225s) on plat 1 and 2 and maybe, just maybe, might have seen a pendo on Plat 3.

But conversely, there is very little, if any, use of plats 1 & 2 by local services during busy times, so barriers there could be exclusively for managing access to/from those 2 long distance operators (or, after May, 3 with EC being just one per day).

I don't recall ever seeing a Pendo on 3, Voyagers have appear on many platforms. 9 & 10 is very rare but the 0750 East Coast has appeared on it from time to time, mainly because a Pendo is in 2 and the Sleeper is in 1. But that is certainly the exception so if it is OK for Virgin trains to use platform 14 at Waverley as an exception as we both agree just don't barrier 1 & 2 and everyone is happy.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I don't recall ever seeing a Pendo on 3, Voyagers have appear on many platforms. 9 & 10 is very rare but the 0750 East Coast has appeared on it from time to time . . .

Noted. . . . thank you.
(I'll reserve judgement on maybe recalling having seen a Pendo exceptionally in plat 3, would have been 4 - 7 years ago, if ever)

 

[rail-britain]

Platform 1 is sometimes used by some early morning FSR services
Platform 9 is sometimes used as an alternative to Platform 3 or 4, if already in use by a Voyager, 185 or FSR service

Next is the issue around the space between Platforms 8 and 9, as a barrier is not possible
Let's say a service in Platform 4 is swapped to Platform 11, plus there are two passengers with disabled assistance
These passengers would need to exit the barrier, back to the concourse, then reenter
However, the barriers might reject many of these tickets
The passenger assistance vehicle would also need to exit (through the large gate that would be required) and then reenter the other area (again, through the large gate that would be required)

 

[Failed Unit]

Noted. . . . thank you.
(I'll reserve judgement on maybe recalling having seen a pondo exceptionally in plat 3, would have been 4 - 7 years ago, if ever)

Should also be clear - I am not saying that a Pendo has never appeared on Platform 3 - just that I have not seen it myself. I nearly made myself into one of those "if I haven't seen it myself it never happens" posters!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Platform 1 is sometimes used by some early morning FSR services
Platform 9 is sometimes used as an alternative to Platform 3 or 4, if already in use by a Voyager, 185 or FSR service

Next is the issue around the space between Platforms 8 and 9, as a barrier is not possible
Let's say a service in Platform 4 is swapped to Platform 11, plus there are two passengers with disabled assistance
These passengers would need to exit the barrier, back to the concourse, then reenter
However, the barriers might reject many of these tickets
The passenger assistance vehicle would also need to exit (through the large gate that would be required) and then reenter the other area (again, through the large gate that would be required)

It seems in one respect Glasgow Central is very like London Paddington where it will only be possible to barrier the majority of the station rather than all if it. I guess that may be enough if the majority of the time you will arrive at a platform with a barrier but from time to time you don't. Again like Waverley {Scotrail barrier platforms in the peak} You would risk not buying at Linlithgow just in case your train didn't appear in the non-barried bit.

Paddington if I recall doesn't have barriers on 1, 6, 7, 8 & 9. 6 & 7 are of course the HEX platforms but out entire station they have 4 not barriered. I am not sure if any services always use a non-barriered platform as I don't use it enough to establish a pattern.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . Let's say a service in Platform 4 is swapped to Platform 11, plus there are two passengers with disabled assistance
These passengers would need to exit the barrier, back to the concourse, then reenter
However, the barriers might reject many of these tickets
The passenger assistance vehicle would also need to exit (through the large gate that would be required) and then reenter the other area (again, through the large gate that would be required)

That's a good example, and I'm sure there will be other good arguments too.
I'll guess that all of these issues can be dealt with in the design, implementation, management, operation, supervision and maintenance of the barriers. These concerns are entirely valid, but are not reasons for abandoning the project.

(Are you looking for employment in project planning?) ! !

My personal guess is that the long-distance platforms at GLC are amenable to the planning of a successful gate-controlled access system. I don't have any information to help me form an opinion on similar controls of local services, though I'm not persuaded that the level of ticketless travel in and out of that station is anywhere near as low as it could be.

However, the economic argument for platform control over the long-distance platforms at GLC are undermined by the operators' own requirment to provide adequate on-board staff to perform timely ticket checks on Up and Down services, so although I believe the installation of barriers on Plats 1 & 2 may be logistically the easiset, they would also probably be the least productive.

 

[The_Stig]

I don't recall ever hearing of any plans to put barriers on the high level platforms, low-level, yes.

 

[CarterUSM]

I don't recall ever hearing of any plans to put barriers on the high level platforms, low-level, yes.

Yes, it has been talked about, and planned for years. August 2011 is the latest date put forward for installation, subject to planning approval of course.