Ticket from Elsenham to travel from Stansted Airport

[petter2]

Hi,
I bought a ticket online yesterday from Elsemham to Enfield Lock, intending to use it only for the part from Stansted Airport, and all TVMs at Stansted were out of order.
When I collected the tickets from the ticket office, the guy insisted that the ticket would not be valid to start from Stansted Airport since a change a year ago, and forced me to pay for an extra ticket from Stansted to Elsenham for £2.30 (a anytime return ticket even though it was off-peak and I only needed a single - he didn't even hand me the return portion).
Who is correct?
Thanks

 

[swt class 450]

Hi,
I bought a ticket online yesterday from Elsemham to Enfield Lock, intending to use it only for the part from Stansted Airport, and all TVMs at Stansted were out of order.
When I collected the tickets from the ticket office, the guy insisted that the ticket would not be valid to start from Stansted Airport since a change a year ago, and forced me to pay for an extra ticket from Stansted to Elsenham for £2.30 (a anytime return ticket even though it was off-peak and I only needed a single - he didn't even hand me the return portion).
Who is correct?
Thanks

More incompetent staff i see. The amount of incompetent railway staff at Airports and on Airport services trying to rip off and mislead passengers is rediculous. It seems to happen at all four major London Airports. Tickets to and from Elsenham are definitely valid to and from Stansted Airport as well. There are no longer any direct trains between Elsenham and Stansted Airport (and vice versa) but this does not make train tickets not valid as tickets restrictions and permitted routes are not set according to timetables. I would recommend complaining about that staff member to Abellio Greater Anglia and claiming a refund of that extra ticket that you were sold. That was wrong of them to sell you an extra ticket when you didn't need it and even worse that they sold you an Anytime ticket when you needed an Off Peak ticket and a Return ticket when you needed a Single ticket. And it is also appalling that you were only given half of a ticket that you had purchased. I think this has to be one of the most incompetent AGA staff members i have heard of.

 

[clagmonster]

Elsenham is a bit of a sticky issue. It is valid to double back between Stansted Mountfitchet and Stansted Airport through the group stations rule, however this rule allows doubling back for interchange purpose only. If starting short at Stansted, you are not there for interchange purposes.

 

[AnkleBoots]

There are TVMs in 3 locations: baggage collection (airside), arrivals (landside), and station. Pathetic if all of these were out of order.

 

[petter2]

Thanks, I'll see what they say.
The airside ones only allow to collect Stansted express tickets, and the ones at the station were all out of order - 5 or 6 of them

 

[Merseysider]

On a practical note, I have always purchased tickets from Audley End when travelling to or from Stansted Airport. It may be a quid or two more than Elsenham in some cases but you can always get itineraries, and there are actually trains from the airport to Audley End, which helps your case, as opposed to arguing the minutiae and hypotheticals.

 

[AnkleBoots]

I think they have priced it now so that Audley End is more expensive than the airport, with origin Tottenham Hale.

 

[Merseysider]

I think they have priced it now so that Audley End is more expensive than the airport, with origin Tottenham Hale.

Depends when you're going.

AUD-TOM £16.80 Super Off Peak day return
SSD-TOM £18.00 Off Peak day return, as the above fare type isn't available.

 

[petter2]

If I check the route here, it says it is not valid form Stansted Airport? I am not sure though what that page exactly checks..
http://data.atoc.org/rp_calc

 

[petter2]

This is their response:

Thank you for your recent email.
I was sorry to hear that you thought you had been overcharged.
I have looked at the route you paid for online and compared this to the journey you made. The Stansted to Enfield Lock is more expensive I am afraid and therefore no refund would be due.
All tickets have some restrictions to their use. You can board at a later station on the route stated on your ticket. You would need an extension ticket to change the route and/or track distance of the journey. I am afraid that looking at the route you attempted to take, this ticket would not have been valid. For future reference, on these occasions, an extension ticket would be required for travel.

I am sorry for any disappointment this may cause and thank you for contacting us
Yours sincerely,
Customer Relations Advisor
Greater Anglia

 

[maniacmartin]

Edit: Aport fails the fares check. Read the rest of the thread before heeding this!

Elsenham is a bit of a grey area. You can't rely on the group stations rule as that is for 'interchange purposes only'.

You can can trace a route Elsenham - Stansted Airport - Enfield Lock without any double backs. My personal opinion is that even though are no scheduled services that take this route that call at Elsenham, it is valid. There is no written requirement to use the entire length of a ticket if it does not forbid Break of Journey. After all, if I held another ticket such as a season ticket between Audley End and Elsenham, it could be combined with this ticket to travel on this route from Audley End via Elsenham.

That said, this is a bit obscure and I don't think its worth arguing with Greater Anglia about it, especially over such a small sum of money and the conditions not being clear either way.

PS Their reply shows a lack of knowledge regarding the ticketing system. You don't pay for a specific route only, but for a ticket that allows a variety of permitted routes (even if there may happen to only be one). Their advisor implies that a cheaper ticket can not have any validity that a more expensive ticket has, which is simply not true. They also use 'extension ticket' repeatedly as if it is in industry term, but it isn't.

 

[tspaul26]

Elsenham is a bit of a grey area. You can't rely on the group stations rule as that is for 'interchange purposes only'.

You can can trace a route Elsenham - Stansted Airport - Enfield Lock without any double backs.

Perhaps the problem is that the passenger must take the shortest route from Elsenham to Stansted Group before map tracing.

I believe Elsenham to the Airport is about two miles longer than Elsenham to Mountfitchet, which suggests that permitted routes would be either:

Elsenham - Mountfitchet - Cheshunt - Enfield Lock​

Or:

Elsenham - Mountfitchet - Airport (double-back for interchange only) - Mountfitchet - Cheshunt - Enfield Lock​

The direct link from Elsenham to the Airport might therefore offend the 'shortest route' rule, although I have not found any particular instructions as to which station in a Routeing Point Group should be used for this purpose.

 

[maniacmartin]

I have not found any particular instructions as to which station in a Routeing Point Group should be used for this purpose.

Me neither. However, for some Routeing Point groups it would be very inconvenient to have to go via the closest Routeing Point.

e.g. for a journey from Balham to Brighton you would use the Streatham Common RP group. The natural group member to go to is Streatham Common, then you can follow the Brighton Mainline all the way, changing at East Croydon. The nearest RP group member is Streatham Hill though.

 

[petter2]

How about tickets from Newport or Audley End, are those tickets definitely valid?

 

[clagmonster]

In this case, if you use Stansted Airport, you fail the fare check rule, whereas Stansted Mountfitchet passes.

The routeing point calculator shows Streatham Common as an appropriate routeing point in your example, but denies Thornton Heath on the basis that you would have to pass through Streatham Common to get there. That seems to be a reasonable interpretation to me. I'm not sure how they are planning on getting from Balham to Streatham in that example without passing Streatham Common though.

 

[maniacmartin]

In this case, if you use Stansted Airport, you fail the fare check rule, whereas Stansted Mountfitchet passes.

Ah yes, I had foolishly forgotten to do the fares check.:cry: I might have to retract my earlier post now that has come to light.

I think it is fair to assume that one must do the fares check on the RP group member that you first pass through, rather than any station in the RP group you intend to use.

 

[paul1609]

I think this is a similar case to using Cosham from West Coastway stations in to Portsmouth. It is a valid interchange station to Portsmouth but if you alight there on a Portsmouth Stations ticket you will either be excessed or penalty fared by SWT RPIs

 

[bb21]

Way too much grey area to be worth wasting more of your time over a princely sum of £2.

Write it off, and move on, life is too short.

I am surprised by the certainty some feel about the situation given that most experts on this forum would consider this anything but a clear-cut case.

I would also recommend an Audley End ticket next time to avoid the airport premium, should it be cheaper.

 

[petter2]

Thanks for the responses, is an Audley End ticket definitely valid?

 

[Merseysider]

Thanks for the responses, is an Audley End ticket definitely valid?

I cannot think of a destination south of Stansted Airport for which it would not be valid.

If you can get an itinerary from National Rail or the website of any train company, your selected route should be accepted.