Timetable mark like a "SE", "FC"...

[T-Karmel]

Hello!

In this thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53062 you write negative about railway mark like a "SE", "FC" in timetable, because if you see "FC" you think "First Class" not "First Capital Connect". Have you more examples? I'm curious

Sorry for my english...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I don't really see how 'SE' could be confused for anything else, but I agree with 'FC'. There aren't many more examples I can think of, maybe c2c being 'CC' and CrossCountry 'XC' could be a little confusing.

 

[rail-britain]

You will be amazed how many people are confused, misread, or misunderstand the many abbreviations that appear on the different railway ticket sales websites

Examples include :
SE Southeastern is often confused for travelling in a Southeasterly direction
SW Southwestern, confused with travelling in a Southwesterly direction
FC, confused with First Class (as against the reverse 1)
Trolley / Trolley Service, confused with Trolley Bus

 

[tbtc]

Trolley / Trolley Service, confused with Trolley Bus

Do people in 2011 honestly expect a Trolley Bus to turn up?

 

[northwichcat]

Northern once printed 'AW' at the top of a service in the Hazel Grove timetable. My initial reaction is why are Arriva Trains Wales running a service to Hazel Grove. On closer inspection 'A' meant the service originated from somewhere and 'W' meant it runs until a certain date.

 

[ainsworth74]

Do people in 2011 honestly expect a Trolley Bus to turn up?

If they're from the continent they might.

 

[Liam]

GR for East Coast.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

LE (which was the code for 'one') I think is still the code for Nat Ex East Anglia...

 

[rail-britain]

Do people in 2011 honestly expect a Trolley Bus to turn up?

As above, some people have never been to Britain and so might expect the term to refer to a Trolley Bus (as the heading above is service)

Another is the reservation diamond
This appears to cause confusion as to why the ticket includes a reservation or in some cases a separate reservation or none at all

Then finally the seat reservation itself, and the old letter A, B, F at the end, meaning people don't know which coach they are in, and if a group is all sat together

 

[Ze Random One]

Actually, The symbol mark I find the most annoying in terms of helping foreign travellers is the propensity for some operators to use a spanner & hammer symbol to mean that "this service may be affected by engineering work". In large parts of Europe, that (or a very similar symbol) means "Sundays and Public Holidays Excepted" (e.g. http://mobility-brochures.b-rail.be/fr/content/download/324/2015/file/signesFR1.pdf )

 

[tbtc]

Going off topic, I know, but for a long time South Yorkshire PTE showed FML for First Mainline in timetables - anyone familiar with internet TLAs will appreciate it has another (unrelated) meaning...

 

[Smudger105e]

Going off topic, I know, but for a long time South Yorkshire PTE showed FML for First Mainline in timetables - anyone familiar with internet TLAs will appreciate it has another (unrelated) meaning...

Fml Formal
FML Football Manager Live (web community)
FML Fluorometholone
FML Football Manager Live (video game)
FML Family Medical Leave (US)
FML Field Manipulation Language
FML Ferret Mailing List
FML Forms Markup Language
FML Fibre Metal Laminate (Delft University of Technology)
FML Famous Last Words
FML Full Maximum Likelihood
FML For My Life (trademark of Be in Health)
FML Formal Methods Letters
FML Follow My Lead
FML Force Module Library
FML Flexible Membrane Lining
FML Falmouth Memorial Library (Falmouth, ME)
FML Fiji Muslim League
FML Facebook Markup Language
FML Famecos Mailing List
FML Fashion Mailing List
FML Frequency Measurement Logic (chip)
FML Fast Maximum Likelihood Method
FML For My Lover (Tracy Chapman song)
FML File Manipulation Language
FML Florida Mathematics League
FML FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Markup Language (an Apache Maven project)
FML Forget My Life (polite form)

 

[T-Karmel]

Oh, much of this

In Poland it's a same, because PR - Przewozy Regionalne (Regional Transportation - rail carrier), and PR - Polskie Radio (Polish Radio, like a BBC Radio).

And about Trolley Bus. In Poland is still in use in few cities. It's why I don't know what is "Trolley" in Southeastern

And GR for East Coast! I would have never guessed GR is East Coast! Maybe Great Western, never East Coast!

How is your proposition for change mark SE, FC etc.?

 

[Holly]

As above, some people have never been to Britain and so might expect the term to refer to a Trolley Bus (as the heading above is service)

Trolley is American usage English for tram or overhead electrified light-rail MUs.
Surprisingly many Europeans learn American usage English.

 

[northwichcat]

Trolley is American usage English for tram or overhead electrified light-rail MUs.
Surprisingly many Europeans learn American usage English.

Yes I've heard Germans referring to 'subway stations.'

 

[DarloRich]

it is the A B F thing on reservations that confuses people!

They read D 34A to be seat 34 in coach A. The number of times people do this has to be seen to be believed. Is it stupidity or is it that difficult to understand a reservation coupon? (I tend to lean to the first!)

You then have to explain, politely, why they are sat 4 coaches from their real seat and the one they are sat in is mine!

 

[ess]

of course the main issue is that it shouldn't matter who runs the trains. They should just be 'operated by..' Normal people don't care if it's first capital connect, northern or southeastern. There should be two bands like.. erm.. Regional Railways and InterCity. Those made sense to the public. Ticketing should follow that logic. Valid on InterCity or Regional services (although it will be a challenge to get to that now!)

 

[rail-britain]

How is your proposition for change mark SE, FC etc.?

There is virtually no chance of these being changed, as GR has not yet been changed to EC
I would suggest you write to ATOC, sending them some printouts and your concerns over international conventions

 

[Schnellzug]

One thing that FGW do that may not be all that important to the average Public, but is useful to geeks, is to show in Timetables not only the operator, but which services are operated by HSTs and Voyagers. They also used to show whioch were operated by class 180s, when they were, and if you ask me ought to be again.

 

[Bungle73]

it is the A B F thing on reservations that confuses people!

They read D 34A to be seat 34 in coach A. The number of times people do this has to be seen to be believed. Is it stupidity or is it that difficult to understand a reservation coupon? (I tend to lean to the first!)

You then have to explain, politely, why they are sat 4 coaches from their real seat and the one they are sat in is mine!

How can people make that mistake when the reservation coupon clearly states "Coach X"? :?

 

[DarloRich]

How can people make that mistake when the reservation coupon clearly states "Coach X"? :?

LOTS! :roll:

 

[mallard]

One thing that FGW do that may not be all that important to the average Public, but is useful to geeks, is to show in Timetables not only the operator, but which services are operated by HSTs and Voyagers. They also used to show whioch were operated by class 180s, when they were, and if you ask me ought to be again.

I didn't think that was particularly unusual... EMT indicates which services are Meridians and HSTs on their timetables and most other IC operators keep different trains on different routes (Virgin) or have little appreciable difference in passenger environment (East Coast).

 

[Waverley21]

GR for East Coast.

On Saturday the Carlisle station platform departure boards were announcing that East Coast's Tyne Valley diverts were run by "GNER". Never thought Carlisle was quite that far behind the times.

 

[northwichcat]

it is the A B F thing on reservations that confuses people!

They read D 34A to be seat 34 in coach A. The number of times people do this has to be seen to be believed. Is it stupidity or is it that difficult to understand a reservation coupon? (I tend to lean to the first!)

You then have to explain, politely, why they are sat 4 coaches from their real seat and the one they are sat in is mine!

Then there's the people who think the 'A' after the seat number means 'Aisle'.

 

[rail-britain]

How can people make that mistake when the reservation coupon clearly states "Coach X"?

Not all coupons clearly state Coach X Seat 99Z
Some simply state something like Reservation : X99Z
People then look at the last letter and assume that is the coach letter
You then have the issue where some reservations are misprinted (fourth ticket in a batch), so the customer goes to the coach as printed on the ticket, which is incorrect

GNER were the first TOC to dispose of the old many letters and many numbers conundrums
Virgin Trains were next
However it is still not perfect

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . may not be all that important to the average Public, but is useful to geeks, is to show in Timetables not only the operator, but which services are operated by HSTs and Voyagers. They also used to show whioch were operated by class 180s, . . . .

In fact, this can be very important to the travelling public if they wish or need to store a bicycle or item of large luggage in 'the van' or to speak with the Guard before boarding. At a brief intermediate stop on a long trainset, estimating the type of train wrongly can result in being at the wrong end of an 11 vehicle train while the dispatch staff are shouting 'hurry up' and the poor passenger still hasn't got 'the van' open or found the Guard!

(This can be avoided by asking platform staff beforehand of course, who should be able to find out if there have been any set-swaps, but it can affect passengers who don't care about class numbers).

 

[northwichcat]

In fact, this can be very important to the travelling public if they wish or need to store a bicycle or item of large luggage in 'the van' or to speak with the Guard before boarding. At a brief intermediate stop on a long trainset, estimating the type of train wrongly can result in being at the wrong end of an 11 vehicle train while the dispatch staff are shouting 'hurry up' and the poor passenger still hasn't got 'the van' open or found the Guard!

The length of train is more important than type of train to the average passenger. Sometimes passengers all crowd at the same end of the platform because most are expecting a two carriage train, then a four carriage one turns up or conversely they expect a four carriage one and spread themselves out and a two carriage one turns up.

 

[tbtc]

I've heard Germans referring to 'subway stations.'

...and Glaswegians.

 

[rail-britain]

...and Glaswegians.

Due to the recent rebranding from Glasgow Underground to Subway

 

[T-Karmel]

of course the main issue is that it shouldn't matter who runs the trains. They should just be 'operated by..' Normal people don't care if it's first capital connect, northern or southeastern. There should be two bands like.. erm.. Regional Railways and InterCity. Those made sense to the public. Ticketing should follow that logic. Valid on InterCity or Regional services (although it will be a challenge to get to that now!)

I'm not sure if I good understand you, but polish railway logic isn't good...

Because, you have Przewozy Regionalne (Regional Transportation) which have train Regio and InterRegio. Regio is old local train. Run in one province and stop on all station. InterRegio run between 2 or more province, and stop not on all station (like a "express train"). This is one company.

Second company is PKP InterCity which have InterCity, Express, Express InterCity and TLK ("cheap railway lines"). All this trains stop only at large stations. And all haven't the same tickets. All have another tickets.

And all going everywhere. Not like a Southeastern and Southern. They have another route. Yes, have common stations, but is only few and ticket on all route you buy only one.

In my city (Zabrze) I have one more company, from 1st October 2011: Koleje Śląskie (Silesian Railways), and is sister-company of Przewozy Regionalne (Regional Transportation), because this and this is managed by marshal (I'm not sure this letter. He's like a "president" of province). And of course, Koleje Śląskie (Silesian Railways) have another tickets and timetable. Timetable isn't on station, where is timetables of Przewozy Regionalne and PKP InterCity in ONE timetable. Koleje Śląskie have timetable on platforms.

And if you going from Zabrze to Warsaw? If you haven't Express to Warsaw, or if you don't want pay so much, you have train from Zabrze to Czestochowa by Koleje Śląskie, and from Czestochowa to Koluszki and from Koluszki to Skierniewice by Przewozy Regionalne, and from Skierniewice to Warsaw by Koleje Mazowiecie (lika a Silesian Railways, but in another province).

And on from point A to point B you going by 4 trains, and buy 3 tickets, because one train (like a Express) is expensive... twice!

Greetings,
T-Karmel