TOC-specific refund vouchers

[garnon]

Hi.

I recently experienced a cancellation of a Grand Central service I intended to use to travel to Yorkshire. As a consequence, I declined to travel (and instead made alternative arrangements) and submitted my ticket by post to GC for a refund.

They have responded by providing me with a voucher for an identical journey. The voucher is TOC specific (ie GC) and valid three months.

The liklihood is that the voucher will be of little use to me, as although I use GC services from time to time, it is unlikely I would visit Yorkshire in the next three months.

Most refund vouchers are not TOC specific and are invariably valid for 12 months.

Are GC within their rights to provide compensation in this way ?

Any views greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Greenback]

Is there, I wonder, a difference between franchised and open access operators?

 

[northwichcat]

It isn't specified whether the ticket purchased was a standard National Rail ticket or a Grand Central only ticket.

 

[Greenback]

True, that may have some bearing, I just don't know if they (GC) are governed by the same rules as, say Southern, and if so, whether that doesn't apply to the TOC's own tickets. I hope someone can enlighten me!

 

[CompactDstrxion]

According to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage the minimum compensation is 20% of a single or 10% of a return, in National Rail Travel Vouchers. You could demand this from GC and return the voucher they sent you.

 

[northwichcat]

According to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage the minimum compensation is 20% of a single or 10% of a return, in National Rail Travel Vouchers. You could demand this from GC and return the voucher they sent you.

Doesn't it state that you can get a refund on your National Rail ticket if your train is cancelled and you decide not to travel?

 

[garnon]

It isn't specified whether the ticket purchased was a standard National Rail ticket or a Grand Central only ticket.

It was an open first class ticket, any permitted route.

 

[John @ home]

It was an open first class ticket, any permitted route.

Does the original ticket contain the words "Travel is subject to National Rail Conditions of Carriage"?

If so, my view is that a Rail Travel Voucher restricted to one train company should be rejected because the unilateral introduction of that restriction by the company is in breach of the NRCoC.

These Conditions set out your rights and any restrictions to those rights. The Train Companies may give you more extensive rights than those set out in these Conditions and, if they do so, these may be found in each Train Company’s Passenger’s Charter or other publications. Details of where you can find this information will be available when you buy your ticket. The Train Companies may not give you less extensive rights, except in the case of some types of reduced and discounted fare tickets where the relevant condition(s) specifically allow them to do so. These Conditions set out the minimum level of rights you are entitled to expect.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

I don't yet have enough information to know whether the voucher has been issued in accordance with the NRCoC. In particular, see Conditions 26 and 27.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Does the original ticket contain the words "Travel is subject to National Rail Conditions of Carriage"?

If so, my view is that a Rail Travel Voucher restricted to one train company should be rejected because the unilateral introduction of that restriction by the company is in breach of the NRCoC.

Northern do this now as well. A friend of mine was recently delayed by around 3 hours getting home due the train hitting a cow near Wennington. By time he got to his destination he was around 3 hours late. He applied for compensation and got 2 x One Day Free Travel vouchers marked "Valid on Northern Trains only". This means he has 2 days free travel, but only on Northern. Which isn't much use for what he wants to do! As far as the TOC is concerned this won't actually cost them anything as no tickets are purchased, therefore they have to pay out no money to anyone.

 

[John @ home]

Northern do this now as well. A friend of mine was recently delayed by around 3 hours getting home due the train hitting a cow near Wennington. By time he got to his destination he was around 3 hours late. He applied for compensation and got 2 x One Day Free Travel vouchers marked "Valid on Northern Trains only".

That is in breach of Northern's Passenger Charter.

If a delay to a Northern service adds an hour or more to your journey, we will offer you National Rail travel vouchers to the value of at least 50% of the fare you paid for that journey. The vouchers are available for use on Northern and other train operators' services. This also applies to weekly season ticket holders.

http://www.northernrail.org/northern/passengerscharter/ifthingsgowrong

Any additional compensation offered by a train company must be in addition to, not instead of, the passenger's rights.

I'm confident that if your friend complains to Passenger Focus, they will ensure that the issue is resolved. They may even get the practice stopped.

 

[northwichcat]

Northern do this now as well. A friend of mine was recently delayed by around 3 hours getting home due the train hitting a cow near Wennington. By time he got to his destination he was around 3 hours late. He applied for compensation and got 2 x One Day Free Travel vouchers marked "Valid on Northern Trains only". This means he has 2 days free travel, but only on Northern. Which isn't much use for what he wants to do! As far as the TOC is concerned this won't actually cost them anything as no tickets are purchased, therefore they have to pay out no money to anyone.

Technically that's permitted if there's a clause in the passengers charter. The cow was outside of the control of the railways and a lot of passengers charters that haven't been drawn up in the past couple of years only offer compensatation in National Rail travel vouchers if it's the fault of the railways.

That is in breach of Northern's Passenger Charter.Any additional compensation offered by a train company must be in addition to, not instead of, the passenger's rights.

Northern's passenger charter also states you shouldn't need to stand at off peak times or for more than 15 minutes at peak times. :roll:

 

[John @ home]

Technically that's permitted if there's a clause in the passengers charter.

But there is not! See my quotation in post 10.

a lot of passengers charters that haven't been drawn up in the past couple of years only offer compensatation in National Rail travel vouchers if it's the fault of the railways.

The current Northern Rail Passenger Charter is marked "Issue 4 April 2010".

 

[scotsman]

Perhaps if you wrote to GC about your predicament, they might extend the voucher to 12 months validity. Certainly good idea from a PR point of view.

 

[maddeningcrowds]

A cow on the line absolutely *is* under control of the railways, it is called fence maintenance.

 

[wibble]

A cow on the line absolutely *is* under control of the railways, it is called fence maintenance.

Not true - if the farmer/land owner is responsible for maintaining the fence, then it's not under Network Rail's control.

 

[tony_mac]

In their last review, the Oft were concerned about compensation being paid in rail vouchers and not cash. They decided not to push it as Passenger Focus were ok with it; but 3-month limited TOC-only vouchers for a refund are an entirely different proposition.

The NRCoC says that in the event of a cancellation you should get a full refund (cash, cheque, debit card etc. depending on how you paid).

I certainly wouldn't accept it!