Train Ferries?

[STEVIEBOY1]

Apart from the Night Ferry service from London to Paris & Brussels, were there ever any other through services from the UK to Europe where the train, with passengers on board, went across on the ferry?

I think the only ones left now are from Northern Germany to Denmark, (Rodby?) and in Eastern Turkey/Iran (Van?) Is or was there one that went from Southern Italy through to Sicily and another in across a lake in Peru?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

There were 2 I believe in Scotland over the Forth and Tay - before the respective bridges were constructed in the 1870's and 1890's.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The train ferry to Sicily (Villa San Giovanni-Messina) is still there and in full use - I used it in October.
Trenitalia has tried to close the service several times, but it's still there...
There is a proposed road/rail bridge project over the 2-mile strait, but it keeps getting cancelled for both economic and environmental reasons.
Being in an active earthquake area doesn't help, and the locals want to retain the port/railway jobs.
So there's no risk to the train ferry for the immediate future.
It takes the best part of 2 hours from arrival at one side, splitting and shunting the portions on board, a 20-minute crossing and shunting off on the other side.
You can stay on the train, or take a stroll on the ferry.
It also keeps traditional LHCS on the main trains to Sicily.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Messina_Bridge

Citing budget constraints, the project was cancelled again on 26 February 2013, by Prime Minister Mario Monti's government

The Fehmarn Belt tunnel replacing the Puttgarden-Rødby train ferry is in planning, with consultancy contracts let and completion planned for 2028.
The main obstacle is German approval (funding and environmental).
The railway on both sides will also be upgraded.
Currently the DMU trains roll directly on/off the ferry without shunting, but you have to leave the train while on board.
Very efficient (compared to the Messina crossing), and takes about an hour all told.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_Fixed_Link
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...s-signed.html?sword_list[]=fehmarn&no_cache=1

 

[Please Explain]

The train ferry to Sicily (Villa San Giovanni-Messina) is still there and in full use - I used it in October.
Trenitalia has tried to close the service several times, but it's still there...
There is a proposed road/rail bridge project over the 2-mile strait, but it keeps getting cancelled for both economic and environmental reasons.
Being in an active earthquake area doesn't help, and the locals want to retain the port/railway jobs.
So there's no risk to the train ferry for the immediate future.
It takes the best part of 2 hours from arrival at one side, splitting and shunting the portions on board, a 20-minute crossing and shunting off on the other side.
You can stay on the train, or take a stroll on the ferry.
It also keeps traditional LHCS on the main trains to Sicily.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Messina_Bridge


The Fehmarn Belt tunnel replacing the Puttgarden-Rødby train ferry is in planning, with consultancy contracts let and completion planned for 2028.
The main obstacle is German approval (funding and environmental).
The railway on both sides will also be upgraded.
Currently the DMU trains roll directly on/off the ferry without shunting, but you have to leave the train while on board.
Very efficient (compared to the Messina crossing), and takes about an hour all told.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_Fixed_Link
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...s-signed.html?sword_list[]=fehmarn&no_cache=1

Both up there on my to-do list soon!

 

[stut]

There's also the seasonal Berlin-Malmo Express, using the the Sassnitz-Trelleborg crossing. It ran in 2017 - no idea about its future (it seems to hang by a thread each year). At least the Kontinentalbanan from Trelleborg to Malmo is back in regular passenger service, making this part of the route more feasible...

 

[MarcVD]

The Van lake ferry still exists, but for the moment is only used for freight. The passenger trains have been suspended, allegedly because of the lack of security in the region, caused by the Khurd insurrection. Not sure I buy this. Nobody knows when/if the train will ever come back.

 

[181]

I think there is a passenger-carrying train ferry to Hainan Island in China. I seem to remember reading some years ago that there were no railways on Hainan beyond the immediate vicinity of the port but sleeping cars were conveyed on the boat to enable an uninterrupted night's travel; if Wikipedia is to be believed, there are now other railways on the island, but the through coaches from the mainland still don't go far from the port (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan#Rail and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haikou_railway_station).

Wikipedia also has a long list of past and present train ferries; it seems that there are still quite a few freight-only ones in operation.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Don't forget the Interislander service in New Zealand, linking Wellington (NI) with Picton (SI).
One of the 3 passenger ferries (Aratere) is a train ferry, though it only takes freight wagons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interislander

DEV Aratere is a roll-on roll-off rail and vehicle ferry in service for Interislander in New Zealand. Built in 1998 and lengthened in 2011, she operates six crossings from Wellington to Picton each day.

 

[Bald Rick]

Re the Fehmarn train ferry, and having to get off. When did the need to be off the train start? I used it in 1991, night trains in both directions, and swear blind we stayed on the train.

Ditto for the Helsingør - Helsingborg train ferry (day train both ways).

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I wonder if it is due to the modern units with power operated doors.

On the Siciliy ferry we could stay on the coaches, no power as there was no locomotive, but they did have manual doors.
I never got to see the crossing when we were on the sleeper, couldn't get myself out of bed, I remember a LOT of shunting though, felt like we were being shunted around for hours...

 

[Redonian]

I think there is a passenger-carrying train ferry to Hainan Island in China. I seem to remember reading some years ago that there were no railways on Hainan beyond the immediate vicinity of the port but sleeping cars were conveyed on the boat to enable an uninterrupted night's travel; if Wikipedia is to be believed, there are now other railways on the island, but the through coaches from the mainland still don't go far from the port (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan#Rail and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haikou_railway_station).

Wikipedia also has a long list of past and present train ferries; it seems that there are still quite a few freight-only ones in operation.

Hainan has had a railway system for many years and it was always possible to travel from Haikou to Sanya using that. Nowadays the islands railways have been completely modernised and electrified and there are numerous trains between Haikou and Sanya.
There are two trains which use the train ferry : Z201 from Beijing to Sanya and Z385 Changchun to Sanya ( and of course, their reverse workings) both of which, I believe still use the old Haikou - Sanya line rather than the new one.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Thank you for all the interesting replies here. May be I will get to do the Rodby one before it stops due to the tunnel.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Re the Fehmarn train ferry, and having to get off. When did the need to be off the train start? I used it in 1991, night trains in both directions, and swear blind we stayed on the train.
Ditto for the Helsingør - Helsingborg train ferry (day train both ways).

I think it's for security and safety, as the train and rail deck access are locked during the crossing.
I seem to remember it's a mixed road/rail ferry, while the Messina one is (I think) rail-only.

 

[181]

Hainan has had a railway system for many years and it was always possible to travel from Haikou to Sanya using that. Nowadays the islands railways have been completely modernised and electrified and there are numerous trains between Haikou and Sanya.
There are two trains which use the train ferry : Z201 from Beijing to Sanya and Z385 Changchun to Sanya ( and of course, their reverse workings) both of which, I believe still use the old Haikou - Sanya line rather than the new one.

Thankyou -- I was remembering a brief mention about 10 years ago in a guidebook that covered the whole of China, so it's not surprising if I remembered that bit wrong (and guidebooks aren't infallible either). The Wikipedia article does suggest that I wasn't imagining the bit about trains off the ferry terminating in Haikou, even if it's now out of date.

I sometimes think it's a pity we can't have London-Dublin sleeping cars via a train ferry, although if they'd ever existed they'd probably have long since disappeared by now. I presume the difference in gauge meant that there wouldn't have been enough rail-borne freight traffic to justify a train ferry (although it appears that there are train ferries on the Baltic and the Black Sea connecting countries with different gauges).

 

[Iskra]

I think it's for security and safety, as the train and rail deck access are locked during the crossing.
I seem to remember it's a mixed road/rail ferry, while the Messina one is (I think) rail-only.

Messina is both road and rail.

 

[MarcVD]

I wonder if it is due to the modern units with power operated doors.

On the Siciliy ferry we could stay on the coaches, no power as there was no locomotive, but they did have manual doors.
I never got to see the crossing when we were on the sleeper, couldn't get myself out of bed, I remember a LOT of shunting though, felt like we were being shunted around for hours...

As far as I remember, on the train deck there are railway-like power sockets and jumper cables to provide power to the train during the crossing. So if your train remained unpowered, it is only due to lazyness of the crew.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

In the days of loco-hauled trains you could remain on-board for the Puttgarden-Rodby crossing - I travelled from Ostend to Copenhagen by through sleeping-car in 1982. There were also through coaches for Stockholm in the consist, which used the Helsingor-Helsingborg train-ferry as well - those were the days! There was quite a performance to split and reform the train for the ferry as I remember. Since the introduction of the ICE-TD DMUs you have had to leave the train - presumably this is for 'elf and safety reasons with fuel on-board etc - road drivers and their passengers also have to leave their vehicles. The ferries are no longer railway-operated but by Scandlines. Rodby and Puttgarden are a bit forlorn these days with abandoned freight sidings - this traffic is now routed via the Great Belt, another former train-ferry route.

 

[MarcVD]

Been there and done that too, as North as Oslo. Brussels to Copenhagen on SNCB I5 couchette cars, and then swedish cars to Oslo. Also went by IC3 to Fredericia, with the strait crossing parallel to the bridge then still in construction. We were not asked to leave the train during the crossing. Good memories, and a lot of diapositives that I still should transfer to digital.

 

[AndrewE]

On a parallel track, I was surprised (and very pleased) to find that the ferry we took from Malta to Gozo about 20 years ago was a small retired dutch train ferry! It still had its set of rails in the deck and ramps from the deck up onto side-wings labelled with "Fietser" (pushbikes, I think.) With these, from inside you could imagine it was a paddle steamer.

 

[Bald Rick]

In the days of loco-hauled trains you could remain on-board for the Puttgarden-Rodby crossing - I travelled from Ostend to Copenhagen by through sleeping-car in 1982. There were also through coaches for Stockholm in the consist, which used the Helsingor-Helsingborg train-ferry as well - those were the days! There was quite a performance to split and reform the train for the ferry as I remember. Since the introduction of the ICE-TD DMUs you have had to leave the train - presumably this is for 'elf and safety reasons with fuel on-board etc - road drivers and their passengers also have to leave their vehicles. The ferries are no longer railway-operated but by Scandlines. Rodby and Puttgarden are a bit forlorn these days with abandoned freight sidings - this traffic is now routed via the Great Belt, another former train-ferry route.

Thanks for that, good to know my memory wasn't defective! The train I came south on was an Oslo-Hamburg service.

 

[Gordon]

I've finally found time to upload a picture I took on an Inter Rail trip in 1981. I went by day because a family friend lived in København

Note the distance covered by the IC Merkur (Freiburg im Breisgau - København)

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[Gordon]

I have finally found time to post a photo I took on the Vogelfluglinie ferry on my 1981 Inter Rail trip. I travelled by day to København as I was luck enough to have a family friend resident in the city.

Train was IC133 Merkur. Note the long distance covered by the train (Freiburg im Breisgau - København)

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[STEVIEBOY1]

That looks a bit like the Rhinegold livery? I wonder how that journey from Freiburg to Copenhagen took?

 

[Groningen]

No; red was 1. Class and green was 2. Class.

There was also a train from Berlin to Malmö via Warnemünde and Gedser.

Source: https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?017,6355678,6355870#msg-6355870

Rheingold had (often) orange between white and red.

 

[Gordon]

No; red was 1. Class and green was 2. Class.

I think you are mixing up two things.

until 1973 DB standard express coaches were dark blue (1st class) and dark green (2nd class)

The TEE livery (in all countries not just Germany) was red/cream.

From 1974, DB adopted the red/cream for all 1st class coaches, and 2nd class became turquoise/beige

In my picture the coach is a 1st class therefore red/cream. There would also have been turquoise/beige 2nd class coaches in the train.


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[Gordon]

That looks a bit like the Rhinegold livery? I wonder how that journey from Freiburg to Copenhagen took?

about 14 hours roughly.
in Summer 1978 there up to around 10 trains a day which went via the Puttgarden ferry

from another Cooks in my collection TEE 34/35 Merkur ran from Stuttgart - København in 1975

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[Busaholic]

In the days of loco-hauled trains you could remain on-board for the Puttgarden-Rodby crossing - I travelled from Ostend to Copenhagen by through sleeping-car in 1982. There were also through coaches for Stockholm in the consist, which used the Helsingor-Helsingborg train-ferry as well - those were the days! There was quite a performance to split and reform the train for the ferry as I remember. Since the introduction of the ICE-TD DMUs you have had to leave the train - presumably this is for 'elf and safety reasons with fuel on-board etc - road drivers and their passengers also have to leave their vehicles. The ferries are no longer railway-operated but by Scandlines. Rodby and Puttgarden are a bit forlorn these days with abandoned freight sidings - this traffic is now routed via the Great Belt, another former train-ferry route.

I went Hamburg to Copenhagen via Puttgarden and Rodby in June 1969, arriving late evening. Later that year I travelled Copenhagen to Esbjerg to catch the DFDS ferry to Harwich and seem to (hazily) remember our train being carried on a ferry across a lake during that Danish journey, or am I imagining it?

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

I went Hamburg to Copenhagen via Puttgarden and Rodby in June 1969, arriving late evening. Later that year I travelled Copenhagen to Esbjerg to catch the DFDS ferry to Harwich and seem to (hazily) remember our train being carried on a ferry across a lake during that Danish journey, or am I imagining it?

Not a lake though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Belt_ferries

 

[MarcVD]

Not a lake though:

There is a bridge there now... I saw it under construction, 20 years ago.

 

[Gordon]

Later that year I travelled Copenhagen to Esbjerg to catch the DFDS ferry to Harwich and seem to (hazily) remember our train being carried on a ferry across a lake during that Danish journey, or am I imagining it?

The ferries are no longer railway-operated but by Scandlines. Rodby and Puttgarden are a bit forlorn these days with abandoned freight sidings - this traffic is now routed via the Great Belt, another former train-ferry route.

No you are quite correct, and it is what Sir Felix Pole was referring to in the last bit of their post

The Københaven - Esbjerg trains cross the Great Belt waterway (Storebælt). Until 1997 this was by train ferry Nyborg - Korsør. The Great Belt is the widest of the three Danish straits that connect the Baltic Sea to the North Sea/Atlantic Ocean. The others are the Øresund and Little Belt. The Little Belt was also once a ferry but this is less obvious nowadays as it was replaced by a bridge in 1935. The Øresund (Denmark/Sweden), as is quite well known, is the most recent of the straits to be crossed by a fixed link.

Out of interest, I was on the Cunard Queen Elizabeth a few years ago, one segment of the cruise was Tallinn to Zeebrugge non stop and we were informed that the timing of the journey had to be just right as we would need careful timing and great care to pass under the Great Belt bridge as depending on tides the clearances for large modern vessels can be extremely tight. The captain was upfront about the minimal clearance which can be as little as a few centimetres! We passed through after dark and it was quite an impressive sight!

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