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Train heating energy loss at stations

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Western 52

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At this time of year, with cold air outside and heating running at high settings on trains, a vast amount of heat energy is lost through the doors each time they open at stations. This is especially noticeable on trains where external doors open directly from the saloons, such as class 150. Sometimes trains idle away in stations, doors wide open and heating full on. Nationally, a vast amount of energy is being lost in this way, and maybe someone has tried to estimate the cost – in both monetary and carbon costs. In summer, energy used to cool and air condition the train may also be lost through open doors.

So, is there a solution? Many shops have a similar problem, with main doors remaining open. Many have a solution though – they use a hot air “curtain” to direct warm air back into the building. In shops, automatic doors also help of course, as they close when not needed. Some trains and trams also have this feature these days, but many do not.

What should the railways be doing to reduce heat energy loss from trains?
 
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Llama

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Not that much energy is lost. If the engines are kept running they'd be producing the heat anyway, 150s use heater matrices fed by engine coolant with a simple 24v fan behind.

Ventilation of the saloons is quite important right now.
 

Bald Rick

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On most trains built in the last 25 years, ie nearly all of them, train doors are set to close automatically after a short period of time. It’s not really a problem.
 

Llama

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On the subject of ventilation, on Northern's 195s and 331s if you press the open button for 3 seconds there will be a beep and then the door won't auto-close after 30 seconds.
 

robbeech

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A regular train I get has a long dwell time at a station with a heavy turn around if passengers. Many guards will close and re release the doors again on stock that doesn’t have auto close features to keep the heat in.

I’m not sure how the heating works on many trains, I know older stock is generally run from the coolant so realistically there’s no wastage there. Electrical heating on diesel multiple units likely doesn’t use huge amounts more fuel and in the grand scheme of things (when compared to traction motors) it’s unlikely to be significant on electric stock either.
 

edwin_m

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There can't be many classes satisfying all of (a) no auto-close, (b) don't use waste heat for saloon heating, and (c) will be in service long enough for any modifications to be worthwhile.
 

skyhigh

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There can't be many classes satisfying all of (a) no auto-close, (b) don't use waste heat for saloon heating, and (c) will be in service long enough for any modifications to be worthwhile.
Only one I can think of is 333s, but in comparison to the energy draw from traction I can't imagine heating is even 1% of that.
 

Bluejays

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In the current climate, that waste of heat provides a very useful change of air.
 

Fincra5

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Maybe the passengers could close the door behind them if no one is getting on or off...
 

Trackman

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A regular train I get has a long dwell time at a station with a heavy turn around if passengers. Many guards will close and re release the doors again on stock that doesn’t have auto close features to keep the heat in.
I used to get up and close it myself is there was a cold gust coming through the door!
 

Skie

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Many trains are overheated, just reducing the temperature a couple degrees could save a lot.
The 507s and 508s actually have a nuclear furnace under each seat. It's quite amazing how much heat those things can put out.
 

Llama

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Those heaters on 507/508s probably run straight off the 750v busline like they do on 319s/769s
 

Astro_Orbiter

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I often see 745's at Liverpool Street sitting there with the doors all wide open for ages between trips, gets nasty cold and drafty if you ask me!
 
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