Train heating

[David Sinnett]

Assuming there are some drivers reading these threads I'd like to ask what the policy is on train heating and then grumble about it!!

This morning there was a slight chill in the air and perhaps it was good to have the heating on for the first part of the journey. But one hour on a busy commuter train with the heating on was toooo much! Perhaps its on until the end of winter now?

Do drivers think about that or is their cab on a different system and therefore they don't know that the poor punters in the back are suffering?

Specifically we're talking 319s here.

 

[O L Leigh]

There are no driver controls for train heating, so it's not down to us. We wouldn't even be aware that there is a problem unless someone told us.

I'm going to take a flyer and make the assumption that the Cl319 heating system is similar to the Cl317 system. That being so, the heating is controlled by fixed thermostats in each coach. If it is cold enough the heating will go onto it's "high" setting, otherwise it will stay on "low".

You do get problems when the train starts to fill up because all those bodies in a confined space generate their own heat. Because there is no A/C, the train can't deal with that, so it's down to the punters to open the windows to let some cool air in. However, even that can be fraught with issues. If the thermostat happens to be in the blast of cool air coming in from outside this will persuade it that the whole coach is cold and trip the heating back onto it's "high" setting again. Once this happens there's nothing much you can do because it creates it's own feedback loop. The hotter it gets the more windows are opened. The more windows get opened the more fresh air comes in. The more fresh air comes in the more the thermostat is cooled. The more the thermostat is cooled the hotter it gets inside. And so it goes on.

This is a particular problem we have with our A/C fitted Cl317/7 units. In the end I just go through and shut all the windows and doors to give the system the chance to reset itself.

If you do have a particular problem with the train heat you should report it to the driver so that it can be reported as a fault, identifying the unit number and the vehicle. You could also write to FCC TL and complain.

O L Leigh

 

[jon0844]

Do the 317/7s have aircon fitted for the whole train, or just the driving cabs? If so, why do the windows still open?

I know a few years ago, FCC acknowledged a fault with the thermostats on the 313s - apparently having been fitted with the wrong type after a refresh - and they went about replacing them, which seems to stopped the trains being heated even in the summer months.

Do/did the 315s have the same system, or the same problem? I presume the 313s were fitted with the wrong part when it was Wagn.

 

[O L Leigh]

Do the 317/7s have aircon fitted for the whole train, or just the driving cabs? If so, why do the windows still open?

No, it's for the entire unit.

I have no idea why the windows on these units were not sealed when they were rebuilt at Wolverton, especially when the windows they had before were removed and replaced. The ones by the toilets are sealed using the simple expedient of replacing the handle with a clip, but I think that has more to do with the corridor passing down the side of the coach past the disabled "robo-loo" and having opening vents here would be a hazard.

I have on more than one ocassion suggested that the handles be replaced by clips throughout the entire unit so that all the windows are sealed and the A/C can do it's job. It wasn't a brilliant installation by any stretch of the imagination, but with the windows closed it does do an effective job of keeping the temperature down even on the hottest day.

I know a few years ago, FCC acknowledged a fault with the thermostats on the 313s - apparently having been fitted with the wrong type after a refresh - and they went about replacing them, which seems to stopped the trains being heated even in the summer months.

Do/did the 315s have the same system, or the same problem? I presume the 313s were fitted with the wrong part when it was Wagn.

Not to my knowledge, but then I joined after WAGN was split and the Cl315's were back at Ilford. I expect these unit have similar heating systems to the Cl313's but I have no idea if they suffered the same problems.

O L Leigh

 

[jon0844]

As soon as it gets hot, people will open windows - and if only a small selection of your fleet has aircon, they'll be used to opening windows on most of the trains they use each day.

So, it is essential to lock out the windows somehow (ideally, have one or two that can be opened by staff - probably with a key - for emergency ventilation). Otherwise a cheap install may as well have been no install!

 

[Death]

As soon as it gets hot, people will open windows - and if only a small selection of your fleet has aircon, they'll be used to opening windows on most of the trains they use each day.
So, it is essential to lock out the windows somehow (ideally, have one or two that can be opened by staff - probably with a key - for emergency ventilation). Otherwise a cheap install may as well have been no install!

I'll second what Jon Morris says above...I've found exactly the same to be true on FGW Link's Turbostars. :?

The windows on these are the same as a lot of suburban stock (Sort of a 45° opening vent) with small latches. On units with air-con, notices are placed by the windows that basically say "Keeping the windows closed will allow the air-con to work properly" but it's not like any passengers pay attention to those notices!

Personally, I'd like to see these locked shut during the summer (And preferably locked open during the Winter! ) but I'm not sure if FGW would be allowed to do that, given they're there for "emergency ventilation".
Wouldn't such ventilation only be needed during an unusual event on board - Like fumes leaking into the carriage from the train's exhaust system - Though?

 

[TEW]

The problem is that there is no guard on the service to come and unlock them should they need to be unlocked.

 

[mathmo]

I'll second what Jon Morris says above...I've found exactly the same to be true on FGW Link's Turbostars. :?

The windows on these are the same as a lot of suburban stock (Sort of a 45° opening vent) with small latches. On units with air-con, notices are placed by the windows that basically say "Keeping the windows closed will allow the air-con to work properly" but it's not like any passengers pay attention to those notices!

Personally, I'd like to see these locked shut during the summer (And preferably locked open during the Winter! ) but I'm not sure if FGW would be allowed to do that, given they're there for "emergency ventilation".
Wouldn't such ventilation only be needed during an unusual event on board - Like fumes leaking into the carriage from the train's exhaust system - Though?

Assuming you're talking about FGW's 166s (which aren't Turbostars), the air con is pretty rubbish and on most days it would be best turned off. I always find the windows are almost all open on these trains, and I can understand too. This is particularly so because FGW have 36 Class 165s (with no air con) and only 24 Class 166s (with air con), and they appear to be used interchangeably. The other day there was such an awful smell in my carriage coming from the air con system that I had to move right to the other end with windows wide open. Just forget about the aircon, please!

 

[TEW]

The air con will only work if the windows are closed though, as soon as they are open it can't work effectively.