Trainline - Refund Review email??!!

[coconut67]

Hi All,

I received this email at the end of august from trainline:

We are contacting you regarding high volumes of refunds being requested on your Trainline Leisure account.

Upon reviewing your leisure account and activity, the online refund function has been disabled, but if you need to request a refund, you can get in touch with our Customer service team via the following options...

Customer experience is our top priority and we'd like to know if there's anything we can do to enhance your Trainline experience - we appreciate any feedback you can provide that will help us improve our service.

Please also note that any refund you're seeking in relation to service delays should be directed to the train operating company with whom you travelled with.

We will keep monitoring activity on a regular basis, and a review of our decision will be made at a later date on individual accounts

Has any one heard anything from train-line since receiving the email? They did remove my refund function also.

I am worried and stressed in case they want to send me to court over this when it is not fraudulent. As a final year uni student, I requested a refund on 8 tickets out of 30 paid adult tickets throughout June 2022 to August 2023. I got refunded for these 7. I requested these refunds as, I had university lecture strikes/online lectures and the other refunds would be if I did not need to use the return ticket. Instead, I would have been picked up by car from family/friends from the relevant station. Plus, return tickets were refunded if, I had a family member drop me back home from different cities if I was visiting. Therefore, I only needed the outgoing ticket. Also, the refunds were only worth £2-£3.

One of the tickets I refunded was an accident - I refunded a used outgoing ticket when I was meant to refund an unused different (return) ticket on the same day. Therefore, this one refund got rejected - which is why I think I got flagged. I did not use the return ticket on this day, due to friends dropping me home from university.

I would much rather receive a fine instead of being sent to court as, I do not want this on my record for my career! Is this just a warning?

Thanks!

 

[skyhigh]

I got refunded for these 7. I requested these refunds as, I had university lecture strikes/online lectures and the other refunds would be if I did not need to use the return ticket. Instead, I would have been picked up by car from family/friends from the relevant station. Plus, return tickets were refunded if, I had a family member drop me back home from different cities if I was visiting. Therefore, I only needed the outgoing ticket.

Are you saying you'd buy a return ticket, use the outward portion and then refund the whole ticket if you didn't need to use the return half?

Is this just a warning?

It sounds like it. But you need to be careful that you stay within the rules in future.

 

[island]

Trainline has been sending a lot of these emails where patterns of refund requests are way out of line with the norm. They know for example that some passengers will routinely refund e-tickets that haven’t been scanned during their journeys. This email will not itself be the start of further action but if you have been requesting refunds that you oughtn’t to have done, you need to know your card is marked and you must stop.

This is also a good reminder to stop using Trainline – you can get most tickets cheaper by going direct to your train company’s website, which doesn’t charge booking fees. (Yes I know Trainline doesn’t charge booking fees on some same day purchases, no need to jump on.)

 

[coconut67]

Are you saying you'd buy a return ticket, use the outward portion and then refund the whole ticket if you didn't need to use the return half?

It sounds like it. But you need to be careful that you stay within the rules in future.

Hi, thanks for replying. I would only refund the ticket partially if I did use the outward ticket and not return. Also, in some instances the trains were delayed/cancelled. Therefore, I would get back home via being dropped off.

Hopefully it is just a warning!

Trainline has been sending a lot of these emails where patterns of refund requests are way out of line with the norm. They know for example that some passengers will routinely refund e-tickets that haven’t been scanned during their journeys. This email will not itself be the start of further action but if you have been requesting refunds that you oughtn’t to have done, you need to know your card is marked and you must stop.

This is also a good reminder to stop using Trainline – you can get most tickets cheaper by going direct to your train company’s website, which doesn’t charge booking fees. (Yes I know Trainline doesn’t charge booking fees on some same day purchases, no need to jump on.)

Hi, thanks for the reply. I have stopped using trainline to book my tickets. I downloaded the west midlands railway app to directly book my next tickets. I definitely have stopped and will take this as a warning.

 

[MotCO]

If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

I note that you are now using a different ticket supplier. Depending upon your travel requirements, you might be able to make savings by using split tickets - the Forum's own ticket site offers this option https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/ (please note, the forum receives a small commission for each sale, but the cost to you will be no greater than if you buy direct from a train company).

 

[JBuchananGB]

What are the rules? Let's say you have an Anytime day return from Stafford to Birmingham which cost £16.10. You use the train to get from Stafford to Birmingham, but then you meet your friend who gives you a lift home to Stafford. No trains disrupted or cancelled. An Anytime Day single would have cost £13.70. What can you claim? Is it £8.05, i.e. half the price of the return ticket, or is it £2.70, i.e. the difference between the price of the return ticket and the price of a single ticket? And what administration charge would be due? I thought the minimum was £10, which makes the question irrelevant, but I am aware that Trainline have some sort of sliding rate.
If we know the rules, and what @coconut67 has been doing we can decide whether there is potential trouble ahead.
They have decided to use the West Midlands Trains app in the future, but I think that one uses Trainline as the back office to fulfill ticket purchases.

 

[coconut67]

If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

I note that you are now using a different ticket supplier. Depending upon your travel requirements, you might be able to make savings by using split tickets - the Forum's own ticket site offers this option https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/ (please note, the forum receives a small commission for each sale, but the cost to you will be no greater than if you buy direct from a train company).

Hi, I will check this site out, thanks!!

 

[Haywain]

What are the rules? Let's say you have an Anytime day return from Stafford to Birmingham which cost £16.10. You use the train to get from Stafford to Birmingham, but then you meet your friend who gives you a lift home to Stafford. No trains disrupted or cancelled. An Anytime Day single would have cost £13.70. What can you claim? Is it £8.05, i.e. half the price of the return ticket, or is it £2.70, i.e. the difference between the price of the return ticket and the price of a single ticket? And what administration charge would be due? I thought the minimum was £10, which makes the question irrelevant, but I am aware that Trainline have some sort of sliding rate.

In the case of refunding the unused portion of a return ticket, other then due to disruption, the amount refunded will be the difference between the single and return fares. So, in your example it would be £2.40 (not £2.70!) less the deduction of an administration fee of £1.00 which is, apparently, applied by Trainline on a sliding scale (details here).

 

[coconut67]

What are the rules? Let's say you have an Anytime day return from Stafford to Birmingham which cost £16.10. You use the train to get from Stafford to Birmingham, but then you meet your friend who gives you a lift home to Stafford. No trains disrupted or cancelled. An Anytime Day single would have cost £13.70. What can you claim? Is it £8.05, i.e. half the price of the return ticket, or is it £2.70, i.e. the difference between the price of the return ticket and the price of a single ticket? And what administration charge would be due? I thought the minimum was £10, which makes the question irrelevant, but I am aware that Trainline have some sort of sliding rate.
If we know the rules, and what @coconut67 has been doing we can decide whether there is potential trouble ahead.
They have decided to use the West Midlands Trains app in the future, but I think that one uses Trainline as the back office to fulfill ticket purchases.

I’m not too sure what the rules are on this, I would have to check. From what I know, my refunds would only equate to £2-£3 so I am assuming it would be the difference.

Also, thanks for clarifying the West Midlands train app does use Trainline. In that regard, I will not be refunding tickets anyway after this. Even if it is cancelled/delayed, I do not want to encounter this being flagged again.

If I was to use to Trainline (or West Midlands app) to purchase my tickets again, will my account be flagged for purchasing? Or would it be been flagged if I rang them asking for a refund? (Considering my refund function is off and I won’t be calling them for a refund anyway).

 

[Haywain]

If I was to use to Trainline (or West Midlands app) to purchase my tickets again, will my account be flagged for purchasing? Or would it be been flagged if I rang them asking for a refund? (Considering my refund function is off and I won’t be calling them for a refund anyway).

Trainline will have no concerns about selling tickets to you. They have already stated that you can apply for refunds by calling and that satisfies your consumer rights, which they cannot unilaterally withdraw.

 

[fandroid]

I would be bold and ring for refunds when appropriate. It's a demonstration that you genuinely believe that you've been following the rules and you can tell the customer service agent each time the reason for your non-use of the ticket or part ticket. If you do that, make a note somewhere of that justification. I might be super cynical but it does the train companies no harm to encourage Trainline in their behaviour, as there will be those discouraged from legitimate claims, as well as real fraudsters.

For a train company to make a case for prosecution they'd need more evidence than an unusual pattern of claims. They'd need to find evidence of actual travel on those refunded tickets. That needs CCTV or evidence from ticket inspections or gatelines, or a confession.
If you've done nothing wrong, stick up for your rights to refunds when you don't do the journeys you've paid for.

 

[coconut67]

Trainline will have no concerns about selling tickets to you. They have already stated that you can apply for refunds by calling and that satisfies your consumer rights, which they cannot unilaterally withdraw.

That makes sense plus, if I purchase through West Midlands app I am still purchasing tickets like normal. I assume most likely Trainline would alert the West Midlands company if they did review my case as, most of my tickets would be under them.

With that being said, if they see me still purchasing tickets normally and not refunding, will they realise this a genuine case?

I would be bold and ring for refunds when appropriate. It's a demonstration that you genuinely believe that you've been following the rules and you can tell the customer service agent each time the reason for your non-use of the ticket or part ticket. If you do that, make a note somewhere of that justification. I might be super cynical but it does the train companies no harm to encourage Trainline in their behaviour, as there will be those discouraged from legitimate claims, as well as real fraudsters.

For a train company to make a case for prosecution they'd need more evidence than an unusual pattern of claims. They'd need to find evidence of actual travel on those refunded tickets. That needs CCTV or evidence from ticket inspections or gatelines, or a confession.
If you've done nothing wrong, stick up for your rights to refunds when you don't do the journeys you've paid for.

I think if there is a cancellation or delay, I will speak to them on the phone to discuss the refund options. As I have a new grad job, I won’t be buying tickets to the same destination as before. I will be purchasing tickets weekly for my commute. Therefore, it’s more likely there will be delays on the new route I take.

That makes sense, if they did take me to court let’s say they would need cctv/more evidence. Plus, if they offered me a fine instead, I would pay it just to save the hassle of the whole situation.

 

[island]

What are the rules? Let's say you have an Anytime day return from Stafford to Birmingham which cost £16.10. You use the train to get from Stafford to Birmingham, but then you meet your friend who gives you a lift home to Stafford. No trains disrupted or cancelled. An Anytime Day single would have cost £13.70. What can you claim? Is it £8.05, i.e. half the price of the return ticket, or is it £2.70, i.e. the difference between the price of the return ticket and the price of a single ticket? And what administration charge would be due? I thought the minimum was £10, which makes the question irrelevant, but I am aware that Trainline have some sort of sliding rate.

Where part of a ticket is not used at the passenger’s choice and convenience, the refund available is the difference between the price paid and the appropriate ticket for the journey made, subject to an administration fee which is a maximum (not a minimum) of £10. In the case you mention it would be £2.70 less any administration fee the seller chooses to apply. In many cases this fee will mean no refund at all arises.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It will also make your life simpler to remember that there's a distinction between what happens if you make a journey and it's delayed, or if you don't make a journey at all.

If you make a journey and it's (sufficiently) delayed, you can claim 'delay repay'. You get this from the train company whose train was delayed. Since Trainline sell tickets but don't operate trains, that means you don't try to claim delay repay from them. Also note that delay repay only kicks in for a delay of 15 minutes or more (and is it still 30 minutes on some train companies? I'm sure someone will confirm or correct me)

If you decide not to travel and claim a refund, then that goes to whoever sold you the ticket - which might well be Trainline. If the train ran and you chose not to use it, then as has been commented there can be an admin fee: this never exceeds £10 per ticket and some vendors (notably Trainline) choose to charge less. If the train is cancelled, then there should be no admin fee.

You should also be aware that even the railway gets 'delay repay' and 'refund' mixed up. So it's important to be clear about what you are claiming, and who from.

 

[Haywain]

That makes sense plus, if I purchase through West Midlands app I am still purchasing tickets like normal. I assume most likely Trainline would alert the West Midlands company if they did review my case as, most of my tickets would be under them.

As stated above, the West Midlands app is provided by Trainline, and Trainline would act on behalf of West Maidlands Trains.

With that being said, if they see me still purchasing tickets normally and not refunding, will they realise this a genuine case?

No, they will see it as a case of a warning that has been heeded.