Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[Watershed]

there are now 2 an hour

Yes but only one calls at all stations. The Northern service skips Cottingley and Ravensthorpe in almost all hours.

 

[Roast Veg]

But not further west when the trains from Healy Mills come in.

Which trains are these?

 

[quantinghome]

Yes but only one calls at all stations. The Northern service skips Cottingley and Ravensthorpe in almost all hours.

Ravensthorpe will be on the new four-track section so that station stop is not relevant. The only difference along the section in question is the Cottingley stop, which will likely be replaced by White Rose, which will certainly need 2tph stopping.

 

[Starmill]

Which trains are these?

Various freight services, Northern services between Wakefield (or beyond) and Huddersfield and Grand Central services.

 

[Roast Veg]

Various freight services,

The post I quoted used the term "further west" here to mean went on TRU - I.E. towards Huddersfield. I can only find a very small number that continue on towards Huddersfield, most head out (West) via the Calder Valley.

Northern services between Wakefield (or beyond) and Huddersfield

Granted, but these are very few and very far between at present. Are we expecting this to become much more frequent?

and Grand Central services.

As with the freight above, I don't think these answer my question.

 

[Starmill]

The post I quoted used the term "further west" here to mean went on TRU - I.E. towards Huddersfield. I can only find a very small number that continue on towards Huddersfield, most head out (West) via the Calder Valley.

As with the freight above, I don't think these answer my question

I'm unsure what you mean really here. They still need line capacity between Ravensthorpe and Heaton Lodge on the slow lines.

Granted, but these are very few and very far between at present. Are we expecting this to become much more frequent?

Northern have rights to run one train per hour so the infrastructure must be able to offer this, at least currently and likely for the foreseeable future.

 

[matacaster]

Isn't there some prospect of Hull to Liverpool containers when gauge clearance sorted out? if these materialise, then they need paths.

 

[SuperNova]

The post I quoted used the term "further west" here to mean went on TRU - I.E. towards Huddersfield. I can only find a very small number that continue on towards Huddersfield, most head out (West) via the Calder Valley.

Freight via Diggle is a large part of the TRU plans and how this incorporates with whatever HMG decide to call NPR in the future too.

 

[59CosG95]

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/york-to-church-fenton-monthly-project-tracker/December%202021%20York%20to%20Church%20Fenton%20monthly%20project%20tracker.pdf

December's monthly tracker for York - Church Fenton is up! Lots of SPS installation on night shifts over the Christmas block north of Colton Jn...

It also mentions that the compound at Ulleskelf is now being demobilised, now that the TRU Logistics Hub at Gascoigne Wood has opened. According to this post on LinkedIn, the cantilevers for the OLE are all pieced together at this hub in a dedicated space. (Even BoJo had a go making a cantilever - probably the most manual labour he's done this year!)

Pictured below, the Prime Minister got hands on experience of the modern methods of construction being used by the TRU East Alliance team at the Joseph Lynn Hub. After announcing the new Integrated Rail Plan on 18 November, during a visit to our site, Prime Minister Boris Johnson helped some of the site team to prefabricate some materials prior to installation.

Our facilities at the Joseph Lynn Hub are capable of building track panels in advance of midweek night renewals, including a loading facility for engineering trains, reducing delivery time and minimising on track disruption. In addition, the site will also boast the ability to construct all small part steel and cantilevers for the electrification programme in warehouses, which can be temperature controlled where required.

Using this remote secure location as a large-scale production hub enables us to minimise the use of other depots and satellite locations, reducing the impact on the wider route and region. The site can also expand to support other projects across the TRU line, providing a long-term strategic hub.

 

[Bald Rick]

.....via Dewsbury and Brighouse, but not Halifax!

Oops !

 

[snowball]

It being now Friday 3rd Dec, the Huddersfield to Westtown public inquiry is apparently due to end today.

Gateley - Error 404

gateleyhamer-pi.com

https://gat04-live-1517c8a4486c41609369c68f30c8-aa81074.divio-media.org/filer_public/54/e8/54e8c297-ecb4-400c-8eb6-3c3099e90b95/provisional_inquiry_programme_v12_29_november_21.pdf

Friday 3 December

Reserved for Closing submissions if business not completed on Thursday

 

[xotGD]

<

White Rose, which will certainly need 2tph stopping.

I agree it needs 2 tph, but is currently only due to get the 1 tph that serves Cottingley.

 

[snowball]

Press release

Manchester railway upgrades continue over Christmas and New Year – passengers urged to check their journeys

Network Rail is continuing with major improvement work around Manchester over Christmas, as part of the Transpennine Route Upgrade.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Network Rail is continuing with major improvement work around Manchester over Christmas, as part of the Transpennine Route Upgrade.

From Christmas Day until the early hours of Wednesday 29 December, railway engineers will be working around the clock to upgrade track in central Manchester, install new signalling equipment at Manchester Victoria and complete the installation of a new railway bridge in Droylsden.

This will bring more reliable journeys for passengers and the new bridge in Droylsden will allow overhead line equipment (OLE) to safely run underneath the bridge structure to allow greener electric trains to run in future.

Further improvements to the track and signalling will then take place between Saturday 1 January and Tuesday 4 January 2022.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Interesting it says the route is Eastern and Northeast. Mistake obviously

 

[Bald Rick]

Interesting it says the route is Eastern and Northeast. Mistake obviously

TRU is being run by Eastern Region, so their Comms team will have released it.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Interesting it says the route is Eastern and Northeast. Mistake obviously

Well the TRU is being delivered by NR Eastern.
You have to forget its LNW/L&Y/LMS heritage from Manchester to Leeds!
I could never understand "Northern Spirit" (ie RR North East) west of the Pennines.
Of course the GN/GC interest west of the Pennines was in the Woodhead/CLC route, but now effectively transferred to the Standedge route.
Liverpool-Leeds-York-Newcastle was an LNWR/NER joint operation split at Leeds, then LMS/LNER.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

TRU is being run by Eastern Region, so their Comms team will have released it.

Well the TRU is being delivered by NR Eastern.
You have to forget its LNW/L&Y/LMS heritage from Manchester to Leeds!
I could never understand "Northern Spirit" (ie RR North East) west of the Pennines.
Of course the GN/GC interest west of the Pennines was in the Woodhead/CLC route, but now effectively transferred to the Standedge route.
Liverpool-Leeds-York-Newcastle was an LNWR/NER joint operation split at Leeds, then LMS/LNER.

Well many apologies- I have learned something new. Thanks for pointing this out.


On a separate note which I have posted in the MML upgrade thread Noel Dolphin submitted a FOI request on twitter and then posted it.

Electrification Costs and Efficiencies v4.3 with challenge panel record Redacted.pdf

www.whatdotheyknow.com

Strictly Confidential

TRU and MML are both classified overall as ‘Infrequently Complex’ when evaluated using the
Totalised STK benchmarking measures.
The rating for TRU is heavily influenced by limited access, geography and infrastructure. It is a
mix of two and four track railway with numerous junctions and areas of significant track
curvature, notably between Manchester and Huddersfield. Linespeeds are predominantly less
than 100mph but with some areas of up to 125mph. There are tunnels of significant length on
the route, notably Stalybridge and Scout, which have limited clearance for electrification. The
Mossley area has been a long-standing conundrum in providing suitable electrical safety
clearances to the adjacent cottages. The approach to railway closures, with 3 weeks in 6
available midweek to the east of Manchester Victoria for example, has been developed to offer
a minimum disruptive experience to customers which comes with a trade off against delivery
cost. SPEED principles are leading plans for funding and decision making.

 

[Starmill]

Strictly Confidential

Hm, sounds like something hasn't gone quite right there.

 

[snowball]

Very interesting, many thanks to you and Noel Dolphin.

If the pie chart near the beginning is accurately drawn, it should be possible to fill in the redacted cost percentages!

I've got as far as 3.2h - layout design - pile install - survey - design detail and install.

May explain why the online info about Manchester to Stalybridge is insistent about it being just a piling job at present.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Hm, sounds like something hasn't gone quite right there.

Indeed - it amused me - but it is on twitter and in the public domain and I have downloaded a copy and it is now on here too! Interesting to say the least. Since Nigel Harris and Roger Ford plus others are Twitter followers also, I have no doubt there will be write ups in Modern Railways and RAIL too.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If I put my "glass half-full" hat on, the fact that Stalybridge and Scout tunnels are singled out as being difficult, but the significantly longer Standedge tunnel isn't, is probably a good thing.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If I put my "glass half-full" hat on, the fact that Stalybridge and Scout Tunnels are singled out, but the significantly longer Standedge tunnel isn't, is probably a good thing.

Agreed -- and

The use of VCC has helped overcome many of the
OLE installation problem locations on TRU and as a result it is not planned to use the
discontinuous electrification approach. It does however remain an option of last
resort for the TRU Mossley Cottages clearance constraint if the current proposals
prove to be unacceptable. Section 5.0

Thank goodness! VCC = Voltage Controlled Clearance

 

[snowball]

Very near the end, TRU "struggling with ORR and seeking support".

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What a find! It shows how much effort is being put into cost reduction.
Also good to see TRU and MML being progressed together, and the troublesome sections itemised.
At Stalybridge Tunnel it seems that a cheaper and less disruptive scheme has now been ruled out because they are going for W8a clearance for freight.
80 bridge lifts avoided by redesign, over the two schemes (mostly on the MML I should think)!
Interesting that (lack of) construction access to TRU sites is a main cost driver.
ORR won't be keen to approve deviations from interoperability TSIs - these are not minor branch lines, and TRU links WCML and ECML and eventually HS2/NPR.

All this appears to be dated May-July this year.
This is pre-IRP, and it's difficult to know what has changed as a result of IRP, with 3/4-tracking Huddersfield-Marsden, and freight clearance introduced.
Personally, I find the steelwork on the Church Fenton-Colton Jn stretch still very heavy, even in its mainly TTC form, much like the GW look.
I know this is on a rare 4-track high-speed section of TRU, but one would hope a lighter design would be found for 2-track and sensitive sections.
The document talks about wider spacing of structures deriving from a higher wire tension in the OHLE.
I hope all this work gets the scheme past whatever cost/technical hurdles the ORR and DfT have set.

 

[Ploughman]

TRU is being run by Eastern Region, so their Comms team will have released it.

It always in the past, seemed to be that LNW and LNE could never cooperate or communicate with each other.

Is the boundary, between offices still at the West end of Standedge Tunnel?

 

[Meerkat]

How come Mossley cottages seem to be treated as a such a showstopper that the rather horrible option of discontinuous electrification is actually being discussed?
Surely compulsory purchase, adapting to block all rear access, and then resale, is an option before that. There may be 20 odd of them but Rightmove suggests they go for less than £150k a pop - they are sandwiched between a busy rail line and an A-road, which they open directly onto the pavement of.
I know it introduces political risk (sad face families in local press etc), and takes a long time, but this is a nationally significant infrastructure project.

 

[Watershed]

Is the boundary, between offices still at the West end of Standedge Tunnel?

Yes.

How come Mossley cottages seem to be treated as a such a showstopper that the rather horrible option of discontinuous electrification is actually being discussed?
Surely compulsory purchase, adapting to block all rear access, and then resale, is an option before that. There may be 20 odd of them but Rightmove suggests they go for less than £150k a pop - they are sandwiched between a busy rail line and an A-road, which they open directly onto the pavement of.
I know it introduces political risk (sad face families in local press etc), and takes a long time, but this is a nationally significant infrastructure project.

I imagine something like that may be the eventual solution. The alternative being some kind of shrouding being built on railway land (akin to the avalanche shelters some lines have). But it will be very expensive either way.

 

[Meerkat]

I imagine something like that may be the eventual solution. The alternative being some kind of shrouding being built on railway land (akin to the avalanche shelters some lines have). But it will be very expensive either way.

Expensive, but "very expensive"? Buying them out would be low single figure millions. That doesnt buy much else on the railway.

 

[takno]

Yes.


I imagine something like that may be the eventual solution. The alternative being some kind of shrouding being built on railway land (akin to the avalanche shelters some lines have). But it will be very expensive either way.

Sounds like it's doable for a couple of million, possibly including the public enquiry. It's a waste, but not very expensive in the context of the scheme overall

 

[Spartacus]

Expensive, but "very expensive"? Buying them out would be low single figure millions. That doesnt buy much else on the railway.

Then there's the millions of solicitors fees on top of that. There aren't THAT many businesses on that side, but you can guarantee the large number on the other side will want some compensation too, and they'll deserve it. We're talking about the town's main high street. Had it just been some minor back road I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem, but here....

The whole area with roads, buildings, bridges, station, gradient and embankment makes the whole thing a big pain. I'd say lower the whole formation a few feet, but that would probably screw up the gradient an unacceptable amount, you've an already low bridge to get over less than half a mile towards Huddersfield.....

I think it's very well trodden ground, this problem.