Travelling from Greater Manchester to London

[Sherry111786]

Hi everyone,

Tomorrow i am travelling from Rochdale to old st in London via train. I have a 26-30 railcard but i intend to travel from 9:30am onwards so i’m not sure if i can use my railcard at this time.

Also i’m probably going to be returning from 3:30pm onwards from london to Rochdale and was wondering how peak times worked. Since the journey will be about 3 hours it will cross into peak time.

Does the start of my journey have to be in off-peak time or if any of my journey is peak time, will i need a peak time ticket?

The tickets are expensive so i was wondering if i can use my railcard to get a ticket before 10am?

What is the best way to get there and back? E.g. can i get a single off peak ticket in the morning, then a peak single ticket to come back? This method means i can come back at a reasonable time otherwise if i buy a off peak return then i might have to wait till peak times end on the return.

Also, can i use the railcard on a advance ticket? So if a ticket has already been discounted, would the railcard give me a further discount? The terms are not clear.

Many thanks,
Sherry

 

[Merseysider]

Really quick answers as I'm out:

Railcards can be used on Advance fares.

The 26-30 railcard can be used before 10am providing the final fare is £12 or higher (know as the minimum fare).

There are cheaper flexible fares not valid on the faster Avanti trains (link) from Manchester to London starting at £28 return. These are excellent value if you can work with the time and train restrictions - click for details. You would just need to purchase the local Rochdale leg separately.

You can also add your railcard discount to an Oyster card, but not a contactless card. Just speak to any member of staff by the Underground ticket machines at Euston.

 

[Sherry111786]

Thank you for the speedy response. I’ve clicked on the link and the restrictions make it really difficult. I have to be at old st station in London before 1:30pm. And i will probably head back by 3:30pm at the earliest. If i have an off peak ticket i will have to enjoy city centre London for a few hours until peak times have gone.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Off Peak Return from Rochdale to London Euston is £72.55 with railcard discount and you can travel with Avanti using that. Can't arrive into Euston before 1130 or return between 1501 and 1844 (Mon-Thurs) so maybe get a seat reservation on the 1853 back to Manchester Piccadilly. Also need to factor in the cost of crossing Manchester (= £2.70?) and London (Euston to Old Street).

 

[Haywain]

The times you are wanting to travel would suggest that you'll struggle to get anything cheap. The forum site, linked at the top of the page, gives prices of around £105.00 to £120.00 for the round trip. It's really the return time of 15:30 that takes you into the higher price bracket.

Off Peak Return from Rochdale to London Euston is £72.55 with railcard discount

Or £76.55 to Zone U1, which is probably worth the extra £4.00.

 

[Sherry111786]

The times you are wanting to travel would suggest that you'll struggle to get anything cheap. The forum site, linked at the top of the page, gives prices of around £105.00 to £120.00 for the round trip. It's really the return time of 15:30 that takes you into the higher price bracket.


Or £76.55 to Zone U1, which is probably worth the extra £4.00.

Yup, it’s difficult to work around that. I’ll probably do what MCR Warrior advised and get an off peak ticket for £72.55 and wait for 18:53 to get the return back to Manchester. Thanks guys

What is weird is that the northern rail app gives the same price for Rochdale to London Euston as it does for Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston. Is anyone else getting this too? Does that mean my journey from Rochdale to Manc Piccadilly is essentially free/ included in the ticket to London Euston?

 

[Haywain]

What is weird is that the northern rail app gives the same price for Rochdale to London Euston as it does for Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston. Is anyone else getting this too? Does that mean my journey from Rochdale to Manc Piccadilly is essentially free/ included in the ticket to London Euston?

Fares often work in 'clusters' so that the same price applies for a range of stations at each end and that is likely to be what is happening here. Don't forget that your ticket would not include the bus or tram between Victoria and Piccadilly. As suggested above, I'd be getting a ticket to Zone U1 London as that will cover your underground journey to Old Street, although you could use the 205 bus from Euston instead and pay for that separately.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does that mean my journey from Rochdale to Manc Piccadilly is essentially free/ included in the ticket to London Euston?

Essentially yes as @Haywain has helpfully explained. You'll still need to be ticketed from Rochdale, of course, and the £72.55 (or £76.55) semi-flexible fare won't include the cost of the Metrolink across Manchester, if that's the way you do decide to do this bit.

 

[Sherry111786]

Fares often work in 'clusters' so that the same price applies for a range of stations at each end and that is likely to be what is happening here. Don't forget that your ticket would not include the bus or tram between Victoria and Piccadilly. As suggested above, I'd be getting a ticket to Zone U1 London as that will cover your underground journey to Old Street, although you could use the 205 bus from Euston instead and pay for that separately.

Isn’t the metrolink free for zone 1 and 2 in manchester if you have a train ticket? I plan to walk from Victoria to Piccadilly anyway but i thought this was the case.

 

[jfollows]

Isn’t the metrolink free for zone 1 and 2 in manchester if you have a train ticket? I plan to walk from Victoria to Piccadilly anyway but i thought this was the case.

The ticket has to have its destination MANCHESTER CTLZ in order to qualify. If you get a return from Rochdale to Manchester this is what is issued, but this doesn’t extend to through tickets I don’t believe, unless they are tickets to other destinations in Greater Manchester.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The off-peak return Rochdale-Euston with your railcard is £71.90 (any operator and with route flexibility).
It's valid to arrive in Euston after 1130 so you could catch the 0935 Avanti and be in Euston at 1141, or any later train for your meeting.
Return is valid from 1845 so you could catch the 1853 to Manchester arr 2105.
The fare starting from Manchester is the same (and across a wide area around Manchester/Liverpool/Chester).

There's also an off-peak return valid on TfW and WMT trains only, via Crewe, at £34.90.
You use the TfW trains from Manchester to Crewe and WMT (LNR) from Crewe to Euston, these are slower trains but still quite fast.
For your journey there are no time restrictions.
Southbound you have a dilemma at Crewe, because there is only 5 minutes between TfW arriving and LNR departing.
The journey planner won't show the short connection, so it looks like 65 minutes to wait at Crewe.
But as the trains use adjacent platforms you will probably make the 5-minute connection.
The 0830 from Piccadilly would get you to Euston at 1224, or 1124 if you make the 5-minute connection.
Return LNR trains are at xx46 from Euston to Crewe, and you have half an hour to wait for the TfW train to turn up.
You will also have to pay the local Rochdale-Manchester fare.

You can mix Advances on both fast and slow services.
It looks like Avanti want £42.35 on the 0855 Manchester-Euston arr 1109.
Coming back you'd have to be sure of catching the specific train, but I can see £29.95 Advances on LNR on the 1646.
So all up that's £72.30 so no cheaper than the flexible off-peak return, though that has the time restrictions.

Euston-Old Street you can use contactless.
LNR don't have any refreshments, so stock up beforehand.
TfW might or might not have a trolley.
Avanti has the shop.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The off-peak return Rochdale-Euston with your railcard is £71.90 (any operator and with route flexibility).

That's possibly no longer up-to-date and appears to be the old fare prior to the September 2024 revision of railcard discounts.

 

[jfollows]

That's possibly no longer up-to-date and appears to be the old fare prior to the September 2024 revision of railcard discounts.

£72.55 now according to https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=RCD&dest=OLD&rlc=TST&period=20250102 (fare to London Terminals)

 

[scrapy]

The ticket has to have its destination MANCHESTER CTLZ in order to qualify. If you get a return from Rochdale to Manchester this is what is issued, but this doesn’t extend to through tickets I don’t believe, unless they are tickets to other destinations in Greater Manchester.

Yes a ticket that ends in Manchester will say Manchester CTLZ if Manchester if from a qualifying station, mostly Greater Manchester (although some exclusions on advances and operator specific tickets, plus a few extras close to boundary). Again if tickets is between 2 qualifying stations it would say ROUTE METROLINK on the ticket. BOTH stations have to be within the qualifying area). If a ticket has neither ROUTE METROLINK nor MANCHESTER CTLZ on it it will generally not be valid on the tram unless it is bought to a specified Metrolink zone or stop.

 

[Watershed]

Isn’t the metrolink free for zone 1 and 2 in manchester if you have a train ticket? I plan to walk from Victoria to Piccadilly anyway but i thought this was the case.

In Zone 1 - but only if the journey is between two stations in Greater Manchester. The validity on Metrolink is shown by the destination or route of the fare being "Metrolink Central Zone" or "Metrolink Ctlz".

Since the journey to London goes beyond Greater Manchester, you have to pay separately for the Metrolink if you want to use it. Alternatively, your ticket would allow you to use Northern services from Victoria via Salford Crescent and Deansgate, or the hourly TransPennine Express service that runs via Manchester Oxford Road and Piccadilly to the Airport.

 

[Thames99]

I've not been for a year or two, but there used to be a free city centre bus service between Victoria and Piccadilly. If this still operates the OP would not have to worry about rail itineries that did not cover this part of their journey.

 

[jfollows]

I've not been for a year or two, but there used to be a free city centre bus service between Victoria and Piccadilly. If this still operates the OP would not have to worry about rail itineries that did not cover this part of their journey.

It still operates, although I normally prefer to walk unless it's wet for example, and even with my impaired walking ability it's usually quicker also.
It seems to have grown into a double deck service these days, so presumably it's popular.

https://tfgm.com/ways-to-travel/bus/free-bus

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's possibly no longer up-to-date and appears to be the old fare prior to the September 2024 revision of railcard discounts.

I was quoting the fares extracted from brfares, £71.90 is what it says today.
It says the fares period is 3-31 March 2024.

 

[jfollows]

I was quoting the fares extracted from brfares, £71.90 is what it says today.
It says the fares period is 3-31 March 2024.

If you use “From 2 Jan 25” you get £72.55, https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail...pert=on&flow=2&multi=0&fare=1&rte=312&tkt=SVR
Why would you use the dates you did?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If you use “From 2 Jan 25” you get £72.55, https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail...pert=on&flow=2&multi=0&fare=1&rte=312&tkt=SVR
Why would you use the dates you did?

Got it now - I didn't realise you could change the applicable dates.
I though you always got the "latest" set of fares.

 

[tram21]

I've not been for a year or two, but there used to be a free city centre bus service between Victoria and Piccadilly. If this still operates the OP would not have to worry about rail itineries that did not cover this part of their journey.

Yes, was going to say, either walk or get the free bus. The metrolink is pretty cheap in Zone 1 so if you are pressed for time then probably just pay for the metrolink!

 

[Haywain]

Got it now - I didn't realise you could change the applicable dates.
I though you always got the "latest" set of fares.

I think most of us do get the latest fares, by default. We can see earlier fares but only by selecting the relevant dates.

 

[30907]

I think most of us do get the latest fares, by default. We can see earlier fares but only by selecting the relevant dates.

I've been on the next-to-last, but that's because I have tended to access it from my browser top 10 rather than my favourites.