Trespass incident at Waterloo [27/06]

[infobleep]

Does anyone know any more about the trespass incident at Waterloo this evening.

From reading National Rail Enquiries and the live departure boards, I decided to walk to the station and catch whatever train was running, rather than get the bus and catch the 18.40 which are that point was listed as being on time at Waterloo. Given the problems I decided it would most likely be delayed.

Unfortunately they forgot to mention that the 18.23 service would be starting from Surbiton at 18.40 so I missed it. Is it really hard to give out accurate information this these circumstances? Someone must have known it was starting short as the inbound service is from Southampton. It even started from it's usual platform.

It is now showing as cancelled in real time trains but not National Rail Enquiries lice departure board.

Perhaps in future I should only use real time trains.

 

[hassaanhc]

Man walked off the platform end ramps and onto the track around where the crossovers are, BTP called to remove person meanwhile as expected all electricity to live rail was switched off.

Image from https://twitter.com/decath10n/status/482550183608463361/photo/1

 

[Saint66]

Some bloke was running about on the lines just in front of the station, and it took NR and BTP about half an hour to apprehend the gentleman involved before switching everything back on.

There's pictures of the incident over twitter, and it seems he was banging on some windows of a train with a stone after the train had stopped on the tracks.

 

[hassaanhc]

In fact from your timings you arrived after services had restarted

 

[infobleep]

Thanks for that. I wonder if it is someone with mental health issues. If not they will be in court.

Interestingly they announced that the Basingstoke stopping services would be calling at all stations between Surbiton and Woking. Now the 17.39 left almost an hour late from Surbiton and was delayed another 20 minutes on route to Woking. However that isn't showing as stopping at any additional stations in between Surbiton and Woking.

The 18.40 which left just a minute late was also delayed by 20 minutes and that too didn't show as stopping at any additional stations. I guess they felt they didn't need to given there was a delayed 17.18 to Guildford, which was stopping at all stations as usual. Not sure how rammed that train was.

Obviously they felt there was so many delayed trains that they couldn't divert the fast services onto the fast line. Normally these two fast services run along the slow line.

Incidentally National Rail Enquiries disruption page also has the following

London Waterloo - Portsmouth via Haslemere (Fast):*Will only run between Woking and Portsmouth - Customers will need to use alternative services between London Waterloo and Woking and change there to complete the journey

( http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/78921.aspx)

Needless to say all services are running from Waterloo abet with delays. Nothing like giving out misinformation.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

His railtour didn't cover all the junctions he needed at the station mouth so had to take drastic measures...

 

[cjohnson]

Congestion was so bad at Waterloo TfL suspended the W&C and Jubilee trains were non-stopping for a while.

 

[boing_uk]

Some friends of mine were affected by this imbecile.. I did suggest sending the snowblower to clear his ego and bad fashion-sense off the tracks...

It was a warmly welcomed suggestion...

 

[lewisf]

Some friends of mine were affected by this imbecile.. I did suggest sending the snowblower to clear his ego and bad fashion-sense off the tracks...

It was a warmly welcomed suggestion...

Indeed it was

 

[Kite159]

Send him the bill for the disruptions caused by his foolish actions

 

[CatfordCat]

The live departure boards show their limitations when this sort of thing happened - I got to Clapham Junction on the understanding that trains were running again about 1830 to get back towards Berkshire.

On the web, most trains were showing as 'on time' then 'delayed' then they just didn't turn up. The indicators on the platform were in a similar state, many trains were shown as next train, then just fell off the display with no further information, some trains came in and weren't the train indicated, which the platform staff then had to deal with.

While the platform staff were doing their best, they didn't seem to have any better supply of information either.

The limitation (I assume) for the technology is that if a train has not left Waterloo then it's shown as "on time" until departure time passes, then "delayed" until it actually leaves or someone tells the system it's cancelled.

I'm not sure there's an easy answer...

 

[causton]

The live departure boards show their limitations when this sort of thing happened - I got to Clapham Junction on the understanding that trains were running again about 1830 to get back towards Berkshire.

On the web, most trains were showing as 'on time' then 'delayed' then they just didn't turn up. The indicators on the platform were in a similar state, many trains were shown as next train, then just fell off the display with no further information, some trains came in and weren't the train indicated, which the platform staff then had to deal with.

While the platform staff were doing their best, they didn't seem to have any better supply of information either.

The limitation (I assume) for the technology is that if a train has not left Waterloo then it's shown as "on time" until departure time passes, then "delayed" until it actually leaves or someone tells the system it's cancelled.

I'm not sure there's an easy answer...

Hopefully the 'diagrams' for units will be linked to the live departure boards in future, so if a train is late coming into Waterloo, it can be shown to be late leaving it too! A bit of harder work for the TOC when diagrams are changed e.g. just like this in disruption, they might find another set, but most of the time it might help...

 

[Tim R-T-C]

You see it on a feed like RTT, if a train stops between sensors, it still displays as expected at a particular time.

The main problem is that many of the timing locations often do not report, so if a system automatically assumed a train that was not listed as passing was stopped it would create a lot of false delays.

 

[tsr]

Pretty much at the height of the disruption (just after trains were able to move in & out of Waterloo), there were several units berthed in platforms where the signaller was unsure of destinations/services required of them. Therefore, they were marked as "TBA-" or "TBA*", effectively instead of being marked with a headcode in the signalling system. That's not to say that they were lost - merely that they were known to exist without any specific requirement at that given moment.

I struggle to think of a way that CIS displays could accurately work out the meaning of this, without reverting to meaningless information. It's clear that any lack of certainty is just as much of a problem as turnaround times, PNBs, changes of diagram where actually known, crew diagramming and general delays. In the end, I presume those units were allocated to an impromptu alternative diagram or started on the correct one later, but imagine trying to translate that into "Delayed" vs "Cancelled" as it all happened!

 

[ollyrogers]

Abjectly useless performance today from SWT. Although the incident was outside their control, they left much to be desired from their handling of information of the event. By looking at National Rail and the SWT website, I was told that London Underground, Buses and FGW were accepting SWT tickets. Hence, I tried to board the E8 from Brentford to Ealing to continue my journey, however the driver just said "nope, I cannot accept".

Back to Brentford, where a 5 minute call to their 0845 helpline yielded absolutely no results, with staff unable to tell me whether I should or should not be able to use a bus.

2 hours later, when I got to Reading to complete my journey on FGW, I got the only honest answer I received all day, from the FGW guard when I asked if he knew if there was any ticket acceptance.

"No idea, I have no idea mate"

Dreadful handling of information by SWT... I'd much rather pay a bit extra in the future and use FGW to Ealing and a bus instead of SWT to Brentford.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Surely information on acceptance is the responsibility of the respective companies to relay to their drivers and crew. SWT can ask the bus firms to accept their tickets, but unless they inform the drivers then nothing is going to happen.

 

[hassaanhc]

There was also a photo of police officers talking to someone on a train that was reported to be egging him on
http://twitter.com/decath10n/status/482564846823567360/photo/1

 

[ollyrogers]

Surely information on acceptance is the responsibility of the respective companies to relay to their drivers and crew. SWT can ask the bus firms to accept their tickets, but unless they inform the drivers then nothing is going to happen.

I did think about this, but then the response from the call centre and the Great Western guards' confusion over the situation leads me to think otherwise

 

[Saint66]

There was also a photo of police officers talking to someone on a train that was reported to be egging him on
http://twitter.com/decath10n/status/482564846823567360/photo/1

And I'd bet that he goaded him on while the police were on sight... Idiot! :roll:

 

[hassaanhc]

And I'd bet that he goaded him on while the police were on sight... Idiot! :roll:

Err... I can't see the officers intervening if it wasn't right in front of them, why bother egress-ing a door (?) and climbing up otherwise?! :P

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Err... I can't see the officers intervening if it wasn't right in front of them, why bother egress-ing a door (?) and climbing up otherwise?! :P

Maybe the poor unfortunate on the tracks made a complaint... :roll:

 

[PermitToTravel]

Err... I can't see the officers intervening if it wasn't right in front of them, why bother egress-ing a door (?) and climbing up otherwise?! :P

Ingressing, surely?

 

[jon0844]

Pretty much at the height of the disruption (just after trains were able to move in & out of Waterloo), there were several units berthed in platforms where the signaller was unsure of destinations/services required of them. Therefore, they were marked as "TBA-" or "TBA*", effectively instead of being marked with a headcode in the signalling system. That's not to say that they were lost - merely that they were known to exist without any specific requirement at that given moment.

I struggle to think of a way that CIS displays could accurately work out the meaning of this, without reverting to meaningless information. It's clear that any lack of certainty is just as much of a problem as turnaround times, PNBs, changes of diagram where actually known, crew diagramming and general delays. In the end, I presume those units were allocated to an impromptu alternative diagram or started on the correct one later, but imagine trying to translate that into "Delayed" vs "Cancelled" as it all happened!

FCC, and possibly others, after many incidents like this has taken to removing everything and only putting up trains on the boards once they're confirmed as running. So no more of that 'on time', 'delayed 1 minute', 'delayed 2 minutes'....

I do think this has been a massive improvement, although perhaps some will still moan as they simply want a magic wand to be waved and for trains to just run whatever the problem.

You can never please everyone, but it's sad that we still talk about all the limitations of the information systems (most of which are very genuine and not necessarily easy to resolve) month after month, when it seems there is a way to reduce the problems significantly, and restore some faith in the information that is shown on screens when it all goes tits up.

I am not sure if that information is yet conveyed properly on the websites and apps though, where it's probably still a case of trying to make educated guesses.

 

[TEW]

2 hours later, when I got to Reading to complete my journey on FGW, I got the only honest answer I received all day, from the FGW guard when I asked if he knew if there was any ticket acceptance.

"No idea, I have no idea mate"

Dreadful handling of information by SWT... I'd much rather pay a bit extra in the future and use FGW to Ealing and a bus instead of SWT to Brentford.

FGW were accepting SWT tickets via any reasonable route and this information was communicated to staff via the internal communication system.

The live departure boards show their limitations when this sort of thing happened - I got to Clapham Junction on the understanding that trains were running again about 1830 to get back towards Berkshire.

On the web, most trains were showing as 'on time' then 'delayed' then they just didn't turn up. The indicators on the platform were in a similar state, many trains were shown as next train, then just fell off the display with no further information, some trains came in and weren't the train indicated, which the platform staff then had to deal with.

While the platform staff were doing their best, they didn't seem to have any better supply of information either.

The limitation (I assume) for the technology is that if a train has not left Waterloo then it's shown as "on time" until departure time passes, then "delayed" until it actually leaves or someone tells the system it's cancelled.

I'm not sure there's an easy answer...

There is a solution to this. The CIS software used by SWT has a 'disruption mode'. It will then only show services which it knows are running, so services which have reported at some point on their journey. The CIS was in disruption mode at Guildford this evening. You'll know if the CIS is in disruption mode as there will be frequent automatic announcements telling you that it is.

 

[Saint66]

Err... I can't see the officers intervening if it wasn't right in front of them, why bother egress-ing a door (?) and climbing up otherwise?! :P

Well, I was just suggesting that he wouldn't of been caught if he wasn't so idiotic

 

[SpacePhoenix]

It made ones of the national papers:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ush-hour-closing-19-platforms-45-minutes.html

When they turned the juice off would that have been all platforms for presumably a good few meters down the line?

Given modern technology, could the information systems not be tied in somehow to the signalling systems (a read only data-feed), so that the estimated arrival/departure times would be based on the timetable and/or their current location?

 

[NSEFAN]

Given modern technology, could the information systems not be tied in somehow to the signalling systems (a read only data-feed), so that the estimated arrival/departure times would be based on the timetable and/or their current location?

They already are tied in with the signalling, which is how they work out how late a train is. The problem is when the timetable is completely thrown out of the window and trains are cancelled and altered at the very last minute.

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder why EMINEM's been wandering around the tracks at Waterloo. New video on the way perhaps.

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder why EMINEM's been wandering around the tracks at Waterloo. New video on the way perhaps.

I thought he was a player banned from Wimbledon because his shorts weren't white enough...

 

[CatfordCat]

Thanks for the insights in to how the 'real time' system works.

I am inclined to agree that little information (i.e. the 'disruption mode' described above) would be better than a lot of wrong information. The latter is not helpful to passengers and generates more problems for staff down the line (e.g. the train crew and platform staff yesterday when a train wasn't what the indicators said it was)

And in my case, the info via the web gave the impressions trains were running more or less normally again, and I decided to go to Clapham Junction as normal rather than head for Paddington and try and get home via Reading (I didn't want to risk getting to Paddington then be told that the problem had been solved and they wouldn't accept my SWT ticket)

I fully appreciate (unlike some passengers) that it's not practical to have vast numbers of staff sitting around waiting for a major incident to happen, and also that I'm sure the control staff would have been extremely busy yesterday afternoon trying to match trains and train crew that they had with whatever services could be run.

But it still seems that 'control' (or whatever the correct term is) is too busy dealing with the problem to tell anyone (including staff down the line) what's actually going on.