Trespassers

[devon_metro]

Found this image from an incident on the GWML the other day.

Idiots!!!

http://roy-matthews.fotopic.net/p48375714.html

 

[O L Leigh]

Words fail me.

one TN

 

[me123]

What he said. I'm glad they're not dead (I'm assuming they're not dead) but still, you're putting many people in danger here. Idiot.

I've seen a trespass incident once (someone took a short cut across the track to get to P2. To be fair, there wasn't an easy way round at Kirkwood and at least they were cautious, but still stupid and dangerous).

 

[P156KWJ]

imbociele. if your going to be selfish enough to take your own life, don't be so selfish as to try and kill someone else too.

 

[richa2002]

I only see one man, who else would be killed?

 

[Gizmogle]

I only see one man, who else would be killed?

Well, if he managed to cause a derailment, people could be killed quite easily.

To be honest though, if these people are fully aware of what they're doing, then they deserve to be killed by oncoming trains!

 

[O L Leigh]

People are squishy and likely to go "pop" if hit hard enough. Chances of him causing a derailment are nil.

Incidentally, I firmly believe that no-one deserves to be killed no matter what. That they die because of circumstances either within their control or not is a tragedy and most unfortunate, but I'm very uncomfortable with people sitting in judgement and saying that their messy end was deserved.

one TN

 

[Respite]

Incidentally, I firmly believe that no-one deserves to be killed no matter what. That they die because of circumstances either within their control or not is a tragedy and most unfortunate, but I'm very uncomfortable with people sitting in judgement and saying that their messy end was deserved.

one TN

Thankfully I have no morales to that affect. I have found that I have switched off to things like this, maybe the affects of being a M.O.M with NR & attending over 20 fatalitys has led me to be this way, who knows. I just feel if you do something stupid then you have signed your own death certificate so you have to live with it or not as the case maybe. Besides I find a lot of people these days to stupid to deserve to pollute the planet. Sounds harsh but I'm not a big fan of the culture we live in these days, the moronic state that a lot of people live in. Maybe I'm just peeved at the minute as a driver mate of mine at work has just had to attend court for the fatality he had last year. The stupid moronic parents of the drugged up chav youth gave him & his girlfriend death stares all the way through the hearing & just made him feel like crap as if he hasnt had enough to deal with already (he hasnt had a good time of it). Honestly what the hell was he supposed to of done in a 158 doing 65mph when he saw the idiot dangling over the platform, swerve? stop dead? Frickin idiots.:mad:

Anyway driving on rural lines at times I find a lot of people walking the line, some even walk there dog as well.:? Would be a shame to kill a decent animal.

 

[O L Leigh]

GhostCav: I think we might be talking slightly at cross-purposes.

Like you, I don't tend to get particularly upset when there's a "fatal", although I do feel sad for the family and friends of the person who will be suffering the loss. Equally, I believe that each person has a responsibility for their own actions. If you decide to take a risk by walking along a railway line you should understand that your actions could result in your death or, at least, a very nasty maiming. However, it is whole other thing to actually say that someone "deserves to die" just because they were talking a stroll along the railway.

I'm very sorry to hear about your colleague's rough time at the inquest. There does seem to be an element of "fault blindness" on the part of the families of the bereaved. My colleague who had the double-fatality on a foot crossing in Edmonton which made the news a couple of years back also had a tough time at the inquest. All of us on the railway knew that this could only have happened if they'd been dicking around on the crossing, but the family wouldn't have it. To them, they were little angels who could do no wrong.

And this is where I feel we're going to hell in a handcart. No-one is prepared to take responsibility for themselves. These two lads (and the two girls at Elsenham for that matter) didn't deserve to die. They were just young kids with their lives ahead of them just out having a good time and doing what kids of their age do. However, they were certainly responsible for their own deaths because of the risks that they decided to take. Sadly, that just isn't good enough for the families who always feel that there must be someone else to blame.

As an aside, why do inquests usually return a verdict of accidental death? My understanding is that this term implies that no-one is at fault. I could understand it if someone had been killed by a falling slate from a roof or somesuch, but how can a death be accidental if you've deliberately placed yourself in the path of an oncoming train?

one TN

 

[Tom B]

I fail to see how *any* reasonable person can blame the death of someone like oneTN's example - arsing around on a level crossing - on anybody but the people doing the pratting around. What could anyone else have done?

 

[Kneedown]

No one is responsible for a persons own destiny other than that person themselves. If you put your hand in a wasps nest you are openly courting getting stung.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I firmly believe that no-one deserves to be killed no matter what.

If that was true then we'd all be speaking German now, with Al Quaieda taking over the world, and gangs of armed criminals roaming the streets!

 

[O L Leigh]

No one is responsible for a persons own destiny other than that person themselves. If you put your hand in a wasps nest you are openly courting getting stung.

Indeed.

If that was true then we'd all be speaking German now, with Al Quaieda taking over the world, and gangs of armed criminals roaming the streets!

This, however, I'm not so convinced of. It's a very oversimplified statement.

I'm sure you wouldn't say that a German deserves to die simply on the basis of his/her nationality any more than you would say that a left-handed person deserves to die because of the way he/she holds a pen. But then, both are equally arbitrary conditions on which to judge others.

Certainly, there was a time when we did fight Germany (twice) and most people in the armed forces found themselves in situations where it was "kill or be killed". If it was me in that situation I would rather the other guy died, but that's a natural survival instinct. But did the Germans deserve to die? Given that they were doing exactly the same job as our boys under broadly similar conditions, would you say that British and American soldiers also deserved to die? If not, why not? Is it simply a matter of personal perspective or something else?

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument about the niceties of national security or law and order because that only moves me away from what I'm trying to say. You may say that certain groups or individuals deserve to die, but who are you to say? What if someone suggested that you deserved to die because of who or what you are or what you say, do or believe? In that situation, who would be right?

You may consider it to be woolly liberal thinking to believe that preserving everyone's human rights is a waste of time, but it is the preservation of these rights that ensures your own personal freedoms as much as they preserve everyone else's. I find it disturbing that there are folk out there who truly believe that removing these protections would help in improving society by allowing them to deal with undesirable elements in our society. Perhaps I've missed something crucial here, but it strikes me that if we allow such a situation to arise here then we have truly failed to learn the lessons of history.

To drag this discussion back onto the original topic, I really feel that there should be greater emphasis on people's responsibilities to balance up their rights. The problem is that there are too many self-centred folk who are just out there for themselves and couldn't give a stuff about anyone else. This chap might have felt it his right to take whatever route he felt he needed between A and B, but failed to understand that he also has a responsibility to obey the law and to maintain his own and other's safety. Therefore, he really should be traced, nicked and prosecuted.

one TN

 

[Dennis]

or treated for mental health problems.

 

[Nym]

You don't have to be being treated for mental health problems to have them *raises hand*

No one is responsible for a persons own destiny other than that person themselves. If you put your hand in a wasps nest you are openly courting getting stung.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


If that was true then we'd all be speaking German now, with Al Quaieda taking over the world, and gangs of armed criminals roaming the streets!

I prefer german to english, and if pepole didn't kill pepole then none of that would have started in the first place, and the UK would never have been colinaised... And nor would we have, penecilin, a knowlage of STDs, or half of the medical or engineering advancements we have now. War, the mother of all invention

 

[driver9000]

stopped at a station last night, lad got off and then hung around at the end of the station (I knew what he was going to do), I was looking back as we were pulling out - guard was watching from the back cab, and sure enough when he thought he couldnt be seen he jumped across the track and down the stairs and off the station! good job the non-stopper coming the other way running late otherwise it could have been messy!!

Still cant work out why he chose to do this, if he had used the stairs on our platform he would have been on the street in about 5 seconds instead of waiting for 2 minutes in the platform!

 

[5872]

Probably got bored, I'm one for being a tad nosy tbh and Ive heard its known as 'tracking' to walk along the railway line :roll:. If its called tracking we only need 15 workers down there and a shed to scare them off .

 

[Nym]

Maybe he was sick of waiting for his train and decided to walk instead, you know what Worst Late Western are like...

 

[TheSlash]

Total shocking - i mean look at the slack on the road in the foreground, the far road doesn't look much better.
The Gentleman may well of been a decent and upstanding engineer trying to prevent a train load of passengers passing over a section of extremely poor quality infrastructure at high speed.

 

[Brit456767]

That guy must have had a lobotomy.

Ok, I won't say I haven't ever crossed the line at anything less than a footbridge.

But really, that's just dumb.

As for these people who don't accept their deceased was at fault, a good example is a drunk in Norwich fell in the river and now the mother wants barriers put up so no one can moor in the city.

Worst incident I ever had was crossing a Level crossing and the Barriers started going down while I was on it and I had to wave frantically at the signalman to get out the way of the oncoming EMU.

 

[Kneedown]

This, however, I'm not so convinced of. It's a very oversimplified statement.

I'm sure you wouldn't say that a German deserves to die simply on the basis of his/her nationality any more than you would say that a left-handed person deserves to die because of the way he/she holds a pen. But then, both are equally arbitrary conditions on which to judge others.

Certainly, there was a time when we did fight Germany (twice) and most people in the armed forces found themselves in situations where it was "kill or be killed". If it was me in that situation I would rather the other guy died, but that's a natural survival instinct. But did the Germans deserve to die? Given that they were doing exactly the same job as our boys under broadly similar conditions, would you say that British and American soldiers also deserved to die? If not, why not? Is it simply a matter of personal perspective or something else?

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument about the niceties of national security or law and order because that only moves me away from what I'm trying to say. You may say that certain groups or individuals deserve to die, but who are you to say? What if someone suggested that you deserved to die because of who or what you are or what you say, do or believe? In that situation, who would be right?

You may consider it to be woolly liberal thinking to believe that preserving everyone's human rights is a waste of time, but it is the preservation of these rights that ensures your own personal freedoms as much as they preserve everyone else's. I find it disturbing that there are folk out there who truly believe that removing these protections would help in improving society by allowing them to deal with undesirable elements in our society. Perhaps I've missed something crucial here, but it strikes me that if we allow such a situation to arise here then we have truly failed to learn the lessons of history.

The best way forward is nearly always the simple way. You can spend years planning something complicated to try and make society a better place, but the result is it inevitably fails, and society has got worse in the all the time that was wasted in planning!

I have never said that ANYONE deserves to killed due to their nationality, whatever it is.
The point i was making was..... You stated that you believed killing was wrong whatever the reason, and i stated that if that were the case, it would have been wrong for us to defend ourselves against Germany during the war as that would inevitably have involved killing, and we would have been overrun and conquered as a result, as indeed the rest of the world would have been. The same would apply today with the threat from Islamic terrorism, the stated aim of which is to eliminate Israel and conquer the non Islamic world. Should just throw our hands up in surrender?
If a criminal was holding a gun to an innocent bystanders head should a Police sniper hold his fire, knowing that killing is wrong, and let the bystander get killed?
Would anyone look the parents of Holly and Jessica in the eye and tell them that Ian Huntley doesn't deserve hanging because killing is wrong? (Oh the irony!)

The fact is, and it is a very sad fact, that it's all very well having ideals as long as EVERYBODY, at home and abroad, is going to value and respect the same ideals, but that is not the case, never has been, and never will be. Thats simply the way of things. There are always people out there, whether criminals or terrorists, who seek to destroy us, whether that us is a girl walking home at night, or us as in our way of life, and trying to hold on to some mythical moral high ground is like giving a green light to those who's values of right and wrong are different to ours, to carry on without fear of reprisal.

In short, i believe that killing is wrong in most circumstances, but i also believe that it is right, and indeed neccessary, in other circumstances.

Interesting that most of those in America who camp outside prisons and protest till they're blue in the face about the State executing a brutal murderer, are also the same people who seek to have all restrictions on abortion removed!
Strange that someone will defend the "right" of a monster to live, and yet defend the killing on demand and without trial of an innocent, defenceless life.

Apologies for going a little off thread,
Regards,
K'down.

 

[O L Leigh]

Kneedown: Thanks for clarifying your position. It wasn't entirely clear from your earlier post precisely what you meant.

one TN

 

[Defiant]

Just like to introduce myself here... I am the person that took the picture at Ealing Broadway of the "Idiot" that decided to walk in the "4'"

 

[O L Leigh]

Welcome!! You can see that we're a heady mix of staff and enthusiasts, so topics like this can get a bit heated from time to time.

So, where was this chap off to? Was he just taking a shortcut or something else?

one TN

 

[Defiant]

The general feeling at the time was that he was probably in a poor "mental state" he was approached by the police (4 of them) very cautiously as he had a backpack on him, when they did finally get within stricking distance of him he was tackled to the ground and handcuffed and then wisked away never to be seen again.

 

[Kneedown]

Kneedown: Thanks for clarifying your position. It wasn't entirely clear from your earlier post precisely what you meant.

one TN

My fault for not reading my post through more thoroughly to make sure it read right.
Apologies for the confusion.

Regards,
K'down.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The general feeling at the time was that he was probably in a poor "mental state" he was approached by the police (4 of them) very cautiously as he had a backpack on him, when they did finally get within stricking distance of him he was tackled to the ground and handcuffed and then wisked away never to be seen again.

A few months ago i very nearly wiped out a lass at Radford, just outside Nott's. How i missed her i'll never know as i looked away just before the expected impact. She appeared to be completely out of it as she just smiled back at me sweetly when i gave her a round of *#@%'s. I'd hit the horn on the 153 so hard i'd snapped the handle clean off!

Some bystanders grabbed her and held her until the BTP arrived, who arrested her.
I later learned that she'd been released the same day, as she had been deemed by a psychiatrist to be not mentally unstable enough to be sectioned, but not sufficiently compus mentis to be charged with any offence, so she just got away with it, probably to try again sometime! :mad: