Trivia: Furthest distance that you can travel in other countries using entirely local buses only.

[busestrains]

One thing i have noticed when looking at the local bus networks in other countries is that the UK seems quite unique in that we can use local bus services to travel between any two places in the country. In most other countries it appears that the local bus networks rarely link up with each other and the only way to travel longer distance is by express intercity coach.

So my question is how far could you get in other countries travelling entirely on local buses? So i am excluding coaches like, National Express, Megabus, Flixbus, Eurolines, Greyhound, etc. I am talking about using local buses. Obviously you can change buses as many times as necessary. So i am not talking about one bus route. Crossing international borders and travelling across multiple countries is allowed too. Does anyone know of anywhere where you can travel fairly long distances and lots of local bus networks link up with each other?

Within the Mainland Europe area it seems quite hard to do. France seems impossible as none of their local bus networks seem to link up. I do not even think you could get from Calais or Dieppe to Paris by local bus. Perhaps within Belgium or Germany or Netherlands it would be possible as their local bus networks seem a lot more extensive than other countries. I would say most of Eastern Europe would be very difficult to get far.

Within the USA and Canada and Australia and New Zealand would be interesting too. The public transport in these countries is not the best especially outside of major cities. Within the USA i wonder if it would be possible to get quite far in the East Coast region where you have lots of large cities near each other and fairly decent public transport by USA standards. I wonder if quite a few of the local bus networks in that area link up to each other.

I would be interested to hear of any examples from any places around the world? Outside of the UK what is the furthest that you can travel using entirely local buses only?

 

[DanielB]

In the Netherlands one could travel the entire distance from west to east borders by bus (Vlissingen to Zevenaar).
North - south is more complicated as there is a missing link in Limburg (no through buses between Sittard and Roermond) and I couldn't come up with any easy way from Zwolle to the north.

 

[dutchflyer]

To add to daniel: in NL it is possible-on mainland=not islands, to get from any place that has buses to any other-except, staying In NL, for a link that has disappeared some 10-12 yrs ago in the very narrow sliver in Limburg (I think when ARRIVA took both train and bus there in contract). In fact it is even possible with pretty good connections to get from 1 side to other in 1 day.
The distinction so clear for Brits between coach and bus is often lacking in other countries. I visit(ed, pre covid) Thailand many, many times and have travelled all over by bus and train-you can go to all not very tiny settlements by bus and there is a complete network, mostly by 100s of private operators, all over the country. A bus/coach that is with reserved seats/prebooked only on dep. from BKK may very well turn into a normal linebus later on.
Recently, inspired by that 9€ ticket I saw a blog from Germany from someone who had visited all the Ĺandes´capitals by bus only in 1 month-it was possible, but some links apparently only on schooldays.
In the continent of EUR FRance is likely to be the one that cannot-as that nasty thing of ´only whithin our boundaries´ often applies to routes that are all subventioned by the departement or now regions, but still old-style deptmt. wise.
In Belgium it is very much possible, in 1 day (perhaps not suns) to go from coast/west till German or LUX border. And for a very low sum too.
In fact for a very long time the UK was fairly unique in having a coach=expressbus network that did heavy competition with the trains. That was-to protect those trains, all run/owned by the state- simply not allowed on the continent. Hence it was very much possible to travel in a very slow way by local bus all across countries. Swiss still sticks to that, though a startup express bus ala FLIX was allowed some time ago and did not last for more as 1 yr-noone would use it. A very fine example of where it is also very well possible that way by local buses only is Czech rep. and also Denmark, their networks are complete in that they interlink into a basic all over the country.

To add to your challenge as I am more of a bus-user as trains (though I now sit in a very fine but late-running RailJet in CZ going to Prahy), I mapped out for myself what I have done by local buses (including rail-replacement though=also board without any reservations): starting from NL into LUxembourg-and immediate over its border into FRance and Germany and in Germany-helped by this summer 9€ offer-untill in old DDR and around Frankfurt. But as such not in 1 single trip but as collection of many trips-filling in gaps last summer.

One more hint/though I just got: the national route planners that most countries now have can usually be set to select modes like train/bus etc.-for NL it is 9292.nl (this was the fone nr when that system was set up in that year.....), for CZ it is idos.cz. That way you can get planned routings very easily. Pre 2000 we had with that old ´strippenkaart´fare system still national bus/tram daytickets, like BE has for its 2 language-parts and some people indeed used it to lan such journeys. LIke GB more or less had with explorer once.

For that USA the best area is the North-West-Seattle and around-that whole peninsula can be covered, but not that frequent. Other large scale areas are in CAL around San Francisco and the bay area and from far north of LA (San Bernardino?) all along till MX border at San Diego.
The North-East is seemingly less easy as again state-borders cut off routes and f.e. New Jersey has lots of commuter/peaks only ´express´ routes to NYC falling halfway between your distinction.

 

[30907]

Interesting, and I have a feeling this has come up before.

Germany can be problematic because of the patchwork of transport authorities.
Czechia and Slovakia tend to be better, but the distinction between "local" and "regional" bus on the standard idos.cz travel planner is somewhat arbitrary.
https://idos.idnes.cz/en/vlakyautobusymhdvse/spojeni/?format=html.
And rural frequencies can be infrequent!

 

[67thave]

On the West Coast, the longest route is probably from Sumas, Washington (on the Canadian border) to Benbow, California (just south of Eureka) and would easily take days. Some legs also run only on certain days (such as the Eugene-Roseburg and Roseburg-Coos Bay legs) and at least one requires advance reservation (the Roseburg-Coos Bay leg). Theoretically, you could start this trip in Hope, British Columbia and take local buses to the border checkpoint in Abbotsford, which is a short walk from the bus stop on the American side.

As for the East Coast, the answer is probably from Beverly, Massachusetts (north of Boston) to Crisfield, Maryland (on the Eastern Shore of Maryland). The route is counterintuitive at points - for instance, the portion between Boston and Springfield requires travelling via Fitchburg and the portion between New York and Philadelphia requires going through Asbury Park (which may actually pose an issue for some on this board, as the Asbury Park to Philadelphia bus route uses coach-spec vehicles due to the length). If it wasn't for a short gap between Greenfield, Massachusetts and Hinsdale, New Hampshire, it would be entirely possible to start this journey further north in Alburgh, Vermont, which is on the border with Quebec.

 

[duesselmartin]

Switzerland's PostAuto could be interesting.

 

[30907]

Switzerland's PostAuto could be interesting.

But because the routes are orientated to the rail system the lowland/midland areas lack long-distance possibilities.
When the high passes are open you could get from Meiringen to Bellinzona and then on to the extreme East of Graubünden via the San Bernardino route.

 

[Gordon]

One thing i have noticed when looking at the local bus networks in other countries is that the UK seems quite unique in that we can use local bus services to travel between any two places in the country. In most other countries it appears that the local bus networks rarely link up with each other and the only way to travel longer distance is by express intercity coach.


I would be interested to hear of any examples from any places around the world? Outside of the UK what is the furthest that you can travel using entirely local buses only?

It could be argued that this situation is an indictment of Britain eons-long poor transport policy. The reason why in Europe it is not possible is because in many countries, the policy was (even before 'environmentalism' arrived...) that you travel longer distances by train and then get a bus to link locally. So even though Germany and Switzerland have very comprehensive bus network overlaid on the main line rail network, it is not all that easy to travel long distances by local bus.

Example - Switzerland: Because of the above policy, on the face of it, you should not be able to travel all the way across Switzerland by local bus, but in fact look closely and in many areas there is a parallel bus service because of the perceived 'duty' of the transport system to serve every last little Swiss location. It would take far too long to check the whole route across the country but I looked at Geneva - Lausanne as the part of Switzerland I know best and found you can get between the two by bus, despite the railway route being one of the fastest main lines in Switzerland

 

[Flying Snail]

The British bus/coach divide just does not translate to other countries in the same way, it doesn't even translate well to Scotland or Northern Ireland.

 

[biko]

and I couldn't come up with any easy way from Zwolle to the north.

Route 40 to Meppel, then to Assen by routes 28 and 20 or 22, then to Groningen by one of the many routes and from there route 160 to Eemshaven would be my suggestion. I think it’s also possible to go to Lauwersoog via multiple routes.

 

[JonasB]

One thing i have noticed when looking at the local bus networks in other countries is that the UK seems quite unique in that we can use local bus services to travel between any two places in the country. In most other countries it appears that the local bus networks rarely link up with each other and the only way to travel longer distance is by express intercity coach.

In Sweden, local and regional bus routes generally link up with each other. So, depending on how you define bus/coach, you can travel from Smygehamn to Karesuando by local bus.

 

[miklcct]

In most other countries it appears that the local bus networks rarely link up with each other and the only way to travel longer distance is by express intercity coach.

This is not true in Latvia. Being a country with no motorways and outdated railway infrastructure, their intercity buses are local stopping services which forms a national network as the backbone of rural transport.

 

[Roast Veg]

The British bus/coach divide just does not translate to other countries in the same way, it doesn't even translate well to Scotland or Northern Ireland.

Indeed it doesn't - I crossed the Isle of Skye on a "local" coach in March that was all set to be replaced by a low floor bus, and maybe has already.

 

[JGurney]

It could be argued that this situation is an indictment of Britain eons-long poor transport policy. The reason why in Europe it is not possible is because in many countries, the policy was (even before 'environmentalism' arrived...) that you travel longer distances by train and then get a bus to link locally.

Weren't railway companies among the pioneer coach operators here? I seem to recall reading that the GWR, for instance, set up coach routes like London - Weymouth in the late 1920's to serve as a kind of fourth class as a means of managing excessive demand for third class in summer.

 

[DanielB]

Weren't railway companies among the pioneer coach operators here?.

Not only in the UK: several bus companies in the Netherlands were owned by NS in the past.
Even quite recently actually. Qbuzz was part of Abellio NL before it was sold to BusItalia.

 

[busestrains]

On the West Coast, the longest route is probably from Sumas, Washington (on the Canadian border) to Benbow, California (just south of Eureka) and would easily take days. Some legs also run only on certain days (such as the Eugene-Roseburg and Roseburg-Coos Bay legs) and at least one requires advance reservation (the Roseburg-Coos Bay leg). Theoretically, you could start this trip in Hope, British Columbia and take local buses to the border checkpoint in Abbotsford, which is a short walk from the bus stop on the American side.

As for the East Coast, the answer is probably from Beverly, Massachusetts (north of Boston) to Crisfield, Maryland (on the Eastern Shore of Maryland). The route is counterintuitive at points - for instance, the portion between Boston and Springfield requires travelling via Fitchburg and the portion between New York and Philadelphia requires going through Asbury Park (which may actually pose an issue for some on this board, as the Asbury Park to Philadelphia bus route uses coach-spec vehicles due to the length). If it wasn't for a short gap between Greenfield, Massachusetts and Hinsdale, New Hampshire, it would be entirely possible to start this journey further north in Alburgh, Vermont, which is on the border with Quebec.

That is interesting to hear. I must say i am very surprised to hear that you could travel all the way from Canada to California by local buses. I had always presumed that buses were non existent in Oregon and Washington anywhere outside of the Portland (and surrounding parts of Multnomah County) and Seattle (and surrounding parts of King County) areas. Outside of Portland and Seattle seems so rural with no major cities and most other areas in the USA like this have no public transport at all.

Does the USA have any such websites at all like the https://bustimes.org website? Any website that shows all local bus routes throughout the USA in all cities and states? Is there any recommend website to look up local buses throughout the USA? What is the best way to search the various longer distance East Coast and West Coast journeys that are possible on local buses? Or is there nothing like this and you just have to find each operators website?

The British bus/coach divide just does not translate to other countries in the same way, it doesn't even translate well to Scotland or Northern Ireland.

Yes i have noticed that. England and Wales seem to have very clear definitions of buses and coaches with bus vehicles only used on bus routes and coach vehicles only used on coach routes. It is extremely rare in England and Wales to find coaches used on local bus routes. Scotland and Northern Ireland and the Republic Of Ireland are the opposite and seem to be very blurred. Within the Scotland and Northern Ireland and Republic Of Ireland areas it is very common to find coaches used on local bus routes. Even some of the very short distance minor rural local bus routes get coaches used on them. Additionally in these areas they accept concession passes for free travel on all coaches including the Flixbus and Megabus and National Express ones. So the difference between buses and coaches seems very blurred outside of England and Wales where they are clearly separated.

In the Netherlands one could travel the entire distance from west to east borders by bus (Vlissingen to Zevenaar).
North - south is more complicated as there is a missing link in Limburg (no through buses between Sittard and Roermond) and I couldn't come up with any easy way from Zwolle to the north.

To add to daniel: in NL it is possible-on mainland=not islands, to get from any place that has buses to any other-except, staying In NL, for a link that has disappeared some 10-12 yrs ago in the very narrow sliver in Limburg (I think when ARRIVA took both train and bus there in contract). In fact it is even possible with pretty good connections to get from 1 side to other in 1 day.
The distinction so clear for Brits between coach and bus is often lacking in other countries. I visit(ed, pre covid) Thailand many, many times and have travelled all over by bus and train-you can go to all not very tiny settlements by bus and there is a complete network, mostly by 100s of private operators, all over the country. A bus/coach that is with reserved seats/prebooked only on dep. from BKK may very well turn into a normal linebus later on.
Recently, inspired by that 9€ ticket I saw a blog from Germany from someone who had visited all the Ĺandes´capitals by bus only in 1 month-it was possible, but some links apparently only on schooldays.
In the continent of EUR FRance is likely to be the one that cannot-as that nasty thing of ´only whithin our boundaries´ often applies to routes that are all subventioned by the departement or now regions, but still old-style deptmt. wise.
In Belgium it is very much possible, in 1 day (perhaps not suns) to go from coast/west till German or LUX border. And for a very low sum too.
In fact for a very long time the UK was fairly unique in having a coach=expressbus network that did heavy competition with the trains. That was-to protect those trains, all run/owned by the state- simply not allowed on the continent. Hence it was very much possible to travel in a very slow way by local bus all across countries. Swiss still sticks to that, though a startup express bus ala FLIX was allowed some time ago and did not last for more as 1 yr-noone would use it. A very fine example of where it is also very well possible that way by local buses only is Czech rep. and also Denmark, their networks are complete in that they interlink into a basic all over the country.

To add to your challenge as I am more of a bus-user as trains (though I now sit in a very fine but late-running RailJet in CZ going to Prahy), I mapped out for myself what I have done by local buses (including rail-replacement though=also board without any reservations): starting from NL into LUxembourg-and immediate over its border into FRance and Germany and in Germany-helped by this summer 9€ offer-untill in old DDR and around Frankfurt. But as such not in 1 single trip but as collection of many trips-filling in gaps last summer.

One more hint/though I just got: the national route planners that most countries now have can usually be set to select modes like train/bus etc.-for NL it is 9292.nl (this was the fone nr when that system was set up in that year.....), for CZ it is idos.cz. That way you can get planned routings very easily. Pre 2000 we had with that old ´strippenkaart´fare system still national bus/tram daytickets, like BE has for its 2 language-parts and some people indeed used it to lan such journeys. LIke GB more or less had with explorer once.

For that USA the best area is the North-West-Seattle and around-that whole peninsula can be covered, but not that frequent. Other large scale areas are in CAL around San Francisco and the bay area and from far north of LA (San Bernardino?) all along till MX border at San Diego.
The North-East is seemingly less easy as again state-borders cut off routes and f.e. New Jersey has lots of commuter/peaks only ´express´ routes to NYC falling halfway between your distinction.

Interesting, and I have a feeling this has come up before.

Germany can be problematic because of the patchwork of transport authorities.
Czechia and Slovakia tend to be better, but the distinction between "local" and "regional" bus on the standard idos.cz travel planner is somewhat arbitrary.
https://idos.idnes.cz/en/vlakyautobusymhdvse/spojeni/?format=html.
And rural frequencies can be infrequent!

Route 40 to Meppel, then to Assen by routes 28 and 20 or 22, then to Groningen by one of the many routes and from there route 160 to Eemshaven would be my suggestion. I think it’s also possible to go to Lauwersoog via multiple routes.

It seems like the Netherlands might come closest to the UK in having a large local bus network. I never realised they had such a large local bus network over there. Seeing that Belgium and Denmark and Germany and Netherlands all having fairly good local bus networks that mostly connect up with each other i wonder if it would be possible to get all the way from the French border to the Polish border or Swedish border entirely by local buses? I guess it depends on how easy routes through Germany are? Are there any websites to look up local bus routes here? Or as it has been mentioned that Czech Republic and Slovakia are good for local buses too could you get all the way to the Ukraine border possibly?

 

[philg999]

It seems like the Netherlands might come closest to the UK in having a large local bus network. I never realised they had such a large local bus network over there.

Quite frankly the dutch bus network puts the U.K. to shame in most respects. Frequent even in rural areas, reliable (apart from in recent months), high quality modern vehicles (including plenty of e-buses) and modern bus stations, with good integration with the trains/metros/trams thanks to them all being operated as concessions. But they so are cripplingly expensive that it’s much cheaper to travel across the country on the train and only use them for short hops at the start/end. (Though despite the crazy high prices, bus ridership is still pretty good).

 

[67thave]

That is interesting to hear. I must say i am very surprised to hear that you could travel all the way from Canada to California by local buses. I had always presumed that buses were non existent in Oregon and Washington anywhere outside of the Portland (and surrounding parts of Multnomah County) and Seattle (and surrounding parts of King County) areas. Outside of Portland and Seattle seems so rural with no major cities and most other areas in the USA like this have no public transport at all.

Does the USA have any such websites at all like the https://bustimes.org website? Any website that shows all local bus routes throughout the USA in all cities and states? Is there any recommend website to look up local buses throughout the USA? What is the best way to search the various longer distance East Coast and West Coast journeys that are possible on local buses? Or is there nothing like this and you just have to find each operators website?

We don't have anything of that sort - the only reason why I know this is through years of research and my immense collection of American bus timetables.

 

[biko]

(Though despite the crazy high prices, bus ridership is still pretty good)

Ridership outside the large cities is actually generally quite bad, with some exceptions.