[Trivia] London Underground stations historically outside London

[miklcct]

Currently, there are 16 tube stations outside London, located in Hertfordshire, Essex and Buckinghamshire.

However, London only gets its present-day definition at the creation of Greater London, where a lot of London Underground stations in outer London were built before it. And to my surprise, the act to build the first electric tube line, City and South London Railway, specified that the railway to be built to the "Short Street in the Parish of St. Mary Newington in the County of Surrey", although the whole line ended up in London when it became operational.

So, during the whole history of London Underground since the Metropolitan Railway, when did the network have the most stations outside London? Furthermore, which counties outside London once had the Underground but no longer now?

 

[PeterC]

The City and South London act was 5 years before the formation of the London County Council.

I would guess that the maximum extent of "county" stations would have been with the extension of the Central Line while the Met was still running to Aylesbury. Everything from Stratford onwards was still in Essex until the formation of the LCC.

 

[etr221]

The initial question for this thread is what is London, and what is a London Underground station?

But certainly the period between the Central Line extensions east to Ongar (1949 or 1957?) and the cutback of the Metropolitan Line from Aylesbury to Amersham in 1961 is when there was the greatest number of Underground stations outwith London, either politically (i.e. the County of London) or postally (the London Postal Districts) defined (though number will differ). (Using the Metropolitan Police District there is a need to check the balance between stations lost by withdrawal beyond Aylesbury, and gained by Central extension to Ongar). At this point there were stations/lines in Surrey, Middlesex, Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire and Essex.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The City and South London act was 5 years before the formation of the London County Council.

I would guess that the maximum extent of "county" stations would have been with the extension of the Central Line while the Met was still running to Aylesbury. Everything from Stratford onwards was still in Essex until the formation of the LCC.

But the Central didn't run to Stratford until years after the LCC - it stopped at Liverpool Street until post-WW2.

 

[miklcct]

The initial question for this thread is what is London, and what is a London Underground station?

London means Greater London now, and County of London before that.

Going back earlier in time, before County of London existed, anywhere outside the City of London wasn't in London and they were in e.g. Surrey, Essex, Middlesex, Kent, as mentioned in the opening post.

A London Underground station is a station, at the time of consideration, with train services run by London Transport or its predecessors. For example, Aylesbury, or even Verney Junction were tube stations when the Metropolitan line operated there.

 

[edwin_m]

But the Central didn't run to Stratford until years after the LCC - it stopped at Liverpool Street until post-WW2.

And most of its stations east of Stratford were operational, just not on the Underground...

 

[Mikey C]

The initial question for this thread is what is London, and what is a London Underground station?

But certainly the period between the Central Line extensions east to Ongar (1949 or 1957?) and the cutback of the Metropolitan Line from Aylesbury to Amersham in 1961 is when there was the greatest number of Underground stations outwith London, either politically (i.e. the County of London) or postally (the London Postal Districts) defined (though number will differ). (Using the Metropolitan Police District there is a need to check the balance between stations lost by withdrawal beyond Aylesbury, and gained by Central extension to Ongar). At this point there were stations/lines in Surrey, Middlesex, Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire and Essex.

I had never considered this before, but thinking about it, when you look at the area Middlesex alone occupied, a massive number of Underground stations were outside London until 1965.

It makes the politics of the London Passenger Transport Board quite interesting, considering how far outside London its remit spread.

 

[Enthusiast]

Furthermore, which counties outside London once had the Underground but no longer now?

Between 1883 and 1885 the District Railway ran a service from Mansion House to Windsor, over GWR metals beyond Ealing Broadway. I think that must have been the only time that Berkshire had a "London Underground" service.

 

[birchesgreen]

District Railway later Line used to have a service to Southend too.

 

[PeterC]

But the Central didn't run to Stratford until years after the LCC - it stopped at Liverpool Street until post-WW2.

the LCC wasn't abolished until 20 years after the War. The Central Line served Stratford in the County Borough of West Ham for 16 years before it became part of London politically
.

 

[Mojo]

London means Greater London now, and County of London before that.

A London Underground station is a station, at the time of consideration, with train services run by London Transport or its predecessors. For example, Aylesbury, or even Verney Junction were tube stations when the Metropolitan line operated there.

Going by this criteria, I'm minded to say that it was between 1957, when the Epping to Ongar section was electrified; and 1959, when the South Acton shuttle was withdrawn.

You could argue it should be from 1949, as though the line up to Ongar was transferred to London Underground in 1949, I believe British Rail continued to operate the train between 1957 when the line between Epping and Ongar was electrified.

The District withdrew the South Acton shuttle in 1959 [at the time, Acton was in Middlesex].

I think we can discount the period of the District operating to Windsor, as this was withdrawn in 1885 which is before the first Deep Tube line was opened; and also the District to Southend/Shoeburyness as the number of stations served is less than the Central line extensions.

 

[AlbertBeale]

the LCC wasn't abolished until 20 years after the War. The Central Line served Stratford in the County Borough of West Ham for 16 years before it became part of London politically
.

I know - I was referring to the start of the LCC, in response to someone I thought was implying the Central was in Essex pre-LCC. Though I might have misunderstood what they were talking about! Or perhaps they meant to say GLC.

 

[PTR 444]

A London Underground station is a station, at the time of consideration, with train services run by London Transport or its predecessors. For example, Aylesbury, or even Verney Junction were tube stations when the Metropolitan line operated there.

Does the period before the formation of the London Passenger Transport Board in 1933 count? Prior to this date, the Tube lines were run by separate companies, and the Metropolitan Line could have been considered a main line railway due to the nature of its operations outside of London.

 

[miklcct]

Does the period before the formation of the London Passenger Transport Board in 1933 count? Prior to this date, the Tube lines were run by separate companies, and the Metropolitan Line could have been considered a main line railway due to the nature of its operations outside of London.

Yes they count as well. The Metropolitan Railway was excluded by Railways Act 1921 because it was considered a London suburban railway like other tube lines, so it remained outside the Big Four and eventually British Rail. That means a legal distinction between the mainline railway and the "underground" existed back then already.

 

[The exile]

For example, Aylesbury, or even Verney Junction were tube stations when the Metropolitan line operated there.

Arguably, before 1933, the Metropolitan Railway was just as much a main line railway as many others which are now part of National Rail. Post 1933, whatever the stations in its outer reaches were, they were definitely not “tube” stations.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Just to annoy the original Metropolitan Line didn’t enter London at all because London was, politically, just the City of London and Farringdon station wasn’t in the City. So numbers low, percentage very high.

I’ll get my coat…