Trivia: What’s the best new bus currently available?

[83G/84D]

I hear drivers making comments about various types of buses and their good and bad points.
So to all the drivers out there I ask, if you were the procurement manager at a bus company based on your personal experiences what new buses would you order if you had a choice.

The bus may not be the cheapest or the best available for the requirements of the company but is the one you would most want to drive.

Nothing old but just buses that are currently available to order from new.

Please also explain the reason for your choice.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Anything Mercedes tends to be pure silk, and having the joy of bendy buses multiple times in my life (relatively rare in the UK), I'd love to see the leccy bendy buses they do ordered in the UK, having used them on the continent.

 

[K4016td]

Although most UK operators prefer smaller and lightweight buses like Enviro or Streetlite I'd take Mercedes-Benz Citaro, if this is not avaliable then an electric alternative eCitaro - top of its class, comfortable both for the driver and the passenger, quite durable, does not rattle on smallest hump, doesn't look like a Quasimodo (compared to the propositions from ADL or Wright nor it's a boxy chinese crap called Yutong). Maybe not the cheapest choice, but it's a personal experience. And its also prestigious for the passenger and the operator - I wouldn't be afraid to promote my services using these buses.

Next in a row would be propositions not yet seen in the UK - either from Solaris or MAN, but in general I'd like to see anything on a heavyweight chassis, specced with comfortable seats, route annoucments and air-conditioning which should be a standard nowadays if we expect people to ditch their cars.

 

[Flange Squeal]

A Mercedes Citaro or a Volvo B7RLE with the newish MCV eVoRa bodywork (I must confess I’ve not tried one with any sort of Wright bodywork for comparison, but unlike older MCV-bodied vehicles I’ve driven I quite rate the eVoRa).

 

[markymark2000]

My comments come just from a passengers perspective but for interurban routes, a good Volvo would go down a treat, something like the B8RLE MCV Evora is very nice. For very local work, a diesel, I always like a Streetlite. I know they aren't always popular but for some reason I quite like them. For local work electric buses, Yutongs take it all day long for me. Very nippy buses and quite comfortable.

Next in a row would be propositions not yet seen in the UK - either from Solaris or MAN

Man have the Ecocities which Arriva has and the Citysmart which I think only Adventure Travel has. The Ecocity is the best bus of the two. Always enjoy seeing one of them turn up. I don't think Solaris have anything over in the UK do they.

 

[K4016td]

Man have the Ecocities which Arriva has and the Citysmart which I think only Adventure Travel has. The Ecocity is the best bus of the two. Always enjoy seeing one of them turn up. I don't think Solaris have anything over in the UK do they.

Oh, forgot about these. But I think they're only build on MAN chassis with Caetano bodywork, which isn't my favourite due to being bit dated visually and too tall especially the ones with CNG tanks - these would benefit from having the tanks partially built into the the roof, like with the ones with actual MAN bodywork so they would be more sleek

Regarding Solaris, they never made anything for the UK market yet, I guess the market for heavyweight buses isn't worth that much in the UK for them to consider entry.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I'll say buses everywhere in Europe and not just the UK.

1. Mercedes Benz Citaro C2
2. Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora
3. Scania N250UD ADL Enviro400 MMC
4. Solaris Urbino IV
5. VDL Citea SLE-120/SLFA-180
6. IIA Menarinibus Citymood

 

[MotCO]

I'll say buses everywhere in Europe and not just the UK.

1. Mercedes Benz Citaro C2
2. Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora
3. Scania N250UD ADL Enviro400 MMC
4. Solaris Urbino IV
5. VDL Citea SLE-120/SLFA-180
6. IIA Menarinibus Citymood

Why the Scania E400 rather than the AD E400?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Why the Scania E400 rather than the AD E400?

Much better performance, much nicer sound, far more suited to higher speeds and much quicker acceleration

 

[MotCO]

Much better performance, much nicer sound, far more suited to higher speeds and much quicker acceleration

Better as an inter-urban bus than a town bus?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Better as an inter-urban bus than a town bus?

Yes that's correct, on city routes I would say the N280UD CNG E400City are better for that

 

[RJ]

"Best" is subjective according to the needs of the business. I am in charge of procurement for my operation, am in the market for a brand new vehicle with custom specs and have approached manufacturers to determine who can meet my needs. I've also spoken to the engineering departments at other operators who've operated the types of vehicles I am interested in. Both those who have gotten rid and those who seem to get on very well with them.

Cheap upfront costs don't necessarily equate to a cost saving over the life of the vehicle. Some buses are expensive to run for various reasons - which are worth looking into to make an informed decision. Other things I look at is the reputation of the main dealers, availability of spare parts and roving specialists.

My operation favours PSVAR full-size single deck buses with at least 40 seats. They have to be able to cope with mountainous terrain, not throw oil out at 60mph and offer decent ride quality - I do routes that are 1-2 hours long and won't subject passengers to bone shaking rattlebox type vehicles.

Time will tell what I deem to be the "best" option

 

[Mikw]

From a passenger perspective the Trent Barton E200's on the Skylink are very nice, and equally at home on fast dual carriageway as they are around town.
We have a lot of Yutongs in our city, they are really smooth and comfy, and the drivers i speak to say they're really good to drive.
Visiting London regularly the E400 electrics on the 63 route are very nice to travel in.

 

[ClydeCoaster]

I'll have to back up the Citaro. I regularly travel on a 14 year old example that's had the life well and truly kicked out of it and the ride quality is still excellent with no rattles or shakes. Unlike the 18 month old ADL EVs that you'd never guess were electric because the rattles are so loud.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Citaro is great, but it's expensive, so I doubt if I was a bus manager I'd choose it even if I think it is probably the best quality bus on the market. What I'd probably do as a bus manager is go out to tender with requirements specified and choose the cheapest, or if I already had a large fleet and was ordering a top-up stick with the same for commonality.

I'll have to back up the Citaro. I regularly travel on a 14 year old example that's had the life well and truly kicked out of it and the ride quality is still excellent with no rattles or shakes. Unlike the 18 month old ADL EVs that you'd never guess were electric because the rattles are so loud.

Rattles and bangs are caused by excessively flexible bodywork. One of the things that helps against that is bonded double glazing (it stops steaming up and thus damage to fabrics from damp too) but it does add to the cost both of production and of repair plus makes the bus heavier so more fuel. Though I wonder how many "brickings" wouldn't result in a broken window for double but do for single, so maybe single could be a false economy?

 

[Snow1964]

I would also vote for Citaro or eCitaro

Clearly more initial cost, but seem to be built to last so probably a good overall lifetime cost.

There are of course operators who buy the cheapest lightweight bus and it is rattling as though it is falling to bits when only 2-3 years old. They're never going to encourage anyone out of their cars by providing one of these.

 

[DanNCL]

I'm not a driver and therefore I'm replying to this thread from the viewpoint of a passenger.

Another vote for the Yutongs here. They seem to be decent quality vehicles, better than the Optare electric that was trialled in the North East.

One I haven't seen mentioned yet is the new single deck offering from Wright, can't remember what it's called. I encountered one in Northern Ireland last month and was pleasantly surprised. It's a massive improvement over a Streetlite, much more comparible to an Eclipse or Solar in terms of quality.

 

[eh1]

I've only ever driven Volvos, and the 4 BYD electrics we have. In my opinion the Volvos are all pretty good, our newer B5TLs are quite smooth, the B8Ls are mostly good to drive (a few aren't great) and as mentioned above the B8RLE MCV eVoRas are consistently good to drive. The BYDs on the other hand, I can't stand, they feel cheap, steering is far too heavy and I cannot bring them to a gentle stop at all! Nothing against the ADL bodywork though, which seems pretty solid and rattle free.

 

[MotCO]

The BYDs on the other hand, I can't stand, they feel cheap, steering is far too heavy and I cannot bring them to a gentle stop at all! Nothing against the ADL bodywork though, which seems pretty solid and rattle free.

Will probably improve once AD starts production of its own battery chassis.

One I haven't seen mentioned yet is the new single deck offering from Wright, can't remember what it's called.

Do you mean the Kite?.

 

[Eyersey468]

I've only ever driven Volvos, and the 4 BYD electrics we have. In my opinion the Volvos are all pretty good, our newer B5TLs are quite smooth, the B8Ls are mostly good to drive (a few aren't great) and as mentioned above the B8RLE MCV eVoRas are consistently good to drive. The BYDs on the other hand, I can't stand, they feel cheap, steering is far too heavy and I cannot bring them to a gentle stop at all! Nothing against the ADL bodywork though, which seems pretty solid and rattle free.

Have MCV sorted out the build quality issues? We don't operate Evoras but do have Evolutions and Evosetis and while the Evolutions aren't too bad apart from the amount of flex in the windows the Evosetis feel like they were thrown together at 6pm on a Friday night, the 67 plates especially.

 

[VioletEclipse]

I am not a driver, just a passenger, but in my experience I would say that Volvo B7TLs, B9TLs, B7RLEs, B8RLEs, Solaris Urbinos and Citaros are usually massively nicer to travel in than anything else. The difference between a seemingly well put together Evora B8RLE, Solaris Urbino or MB Citaro and a cheap-feeling rattily bus such as a Wright Streetlite or Wright Gemini 3 B5TL is significant and can be the difference between an overall good journey and an uncomfortable journey.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Citaro is great, but it's expensive, so I doubt if I was a bus manager I'd choose it even if I think it is probably the best quality bus on the market.

The Citaro isn’t what it was. We have an all-Citaro single decker fleet here and the newest ones from 2020 and 2021 definitely have more rattles than the older ones. Although the oldest ones have the weird seating over the near side arch where one seat is six inches higher than the other one, so there is that.

 

[Citistar]

Having been a devotee for many years, I'd suggest something from Optare/Switch/AshokLeyland, but there seem to be so few deliveries from their factory to the UK now that it's near impossible to judge how good their current products are.

 

[K4016td]

Although the oldest ones have the weird seating over the near side arch where one seat is six inches higher than the other one, so there is that.

It's due to the fact that normally this arrangement is opposite the third back door in the continental versions where passenger flow is more important than having many seats. Actually as far as I can remember back in early 2000s many operators in Poland ordered buses with purposely reduced amount of seats due to lower rate of tax if a bus had less than 22 seats, which often looked strange and resulted in a lot of 1.5 size seats where 2 full ones would fit better.

edit: checked legislation and its 22 not 28 seats.

 

[MotCO]

Having been a devotee for many years, I'd suggest something from Optare/Switch/AshokLeyland, but there seem to be so few deliveries from their factory to the UK now that it's near impossible to judge how good their current products are.

I saw in the last edition of Buses that around 4 Solos have recently been delivered to UK operators. However, there were some Indian orders for their new double decker EV, presumably assembled in India.

I also noticed very few Streetlites being delivered; are operators switching to AD, Volvo/MCV or Yutong produts instead?

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

It may be a subjective matter, driving versus being a passenger.

From both points of view? Anything with a Volvo chassis.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I've only ever driven Volvos, and the 4 BYD electrics we have. In my opinion the Volvos are all pretty good, our newer B5TLs are quite smooth, the B8Ls are mostly good to drive (a few aren't great) and as mentioned above the B8RLE MCV eVoRas are consistently good to drive. The BYDs on the other hand, I can't stand, they feel cheap, steering is far too heavy and I cannot bring them to a gentle stop at all! Nothing against the ADL bodywork though, which seems pretty solid and rattle free.

On the ones at Stagecoach Bluebird the regenerative braking cuts out at around 5MPH which means when slowing down the bus will suddenly have a tendency to lurch forward, they also struggle to pick up speed above 20MPH on hills which for the sort of work they're being used on is an issue. The build quality on the Enviro400EVs here can only be described as shoddy, not even a year old and they already have bits of internal trim coming off etc.

When it comes to build quality ADL overall are quite inconsistent. 2018/19 builds seem to be the best of the bunch, additionally Falkirk built bodies tend to be less rattily than Scarborough built ones.

One I haven't seen mentioned yet is the new single deck offering from Wright, can't remember what it's called. I encountered one in Northern Ireland last month and was pleasantly surprised. It's a massive improvement over a Streetlite, much more comparible to an Eclipse or Solar in terms of quality.

The interesting thing with the Wright GB Hawk is that it shares the same Daimler OM934 engine and Voith gearbox as the Streetlite, with that said the recent Streetlites also seem to be a big improvement over the older ones. The Streetdeck Electroliners and Hydroliners i've been on have also been pretty solid, especially compared to the earlier Gemini 3s which at one point (cough Lothians 18 plate batch...) seemed to come from the factory with built in rattles.

 

[scosutsut]

For me it would be about the three S's I see operators get one or more of wrong, constantly

Specification:

My logic here is people that need to get the bus, will get the bus. But how are you getting anyone out of trains or cars if you are sending out trash?

So this needs to be tailored to circumstances but for me at a minimum:

High back seating
Next stop announcements
Classy and welcoming saloon specification

I'm loathed to include usb charging or WiFi but I would work on the principle of looking at what my competitors did, and make sure to do it equal, or better, where possible.

Suitability:

Main one would be route length and distance and terrain. I'd not stick 4 cylinder E200s on motorway thrashes, nor would I rush to stick heavyweights on city centre circulars.

I'd value fleet commonality, but not against everything else. If I'm batch buying from Volvo and an ADL product stacks, I'll turn if Volvo can't make it not worth it.

I'd want my driver's to have a feedback loop into management too. If we get a batch of something in and they hate them, we listen and we push hard for that to be addressed in future batches, retro fixed into the fleet as well if possible, or we don't buy any more. We communicate this loud and clear to dealers and the manufacturers.

State:

I'd buy nice and then I'd keep it nice!

I'd set up a realistic schedule for overhaul and repaints over the vehicles lifecycle. Realistically 2 repaints, and 1 full refurb over a 15 year lifecycle as a minimum. Keep it smart, presentable, consistently.

Obviously all these points would need to scale according to the size and type of operator I am - I've assumed at least a mid sized operator with a mix of services and decent financial power.

There are plenty of big companies out there with the purchasing power to get all these right and they consistently miss the mark in my opinion.

Right, enough rambling, back to my armchair to count rivets

 

[dodecahedron67]

Having been a devotee for many years, I'd suggest something from Optare/Switch/AshokLeyland, but there seem to be so few deliveries from their factory to the UK now that it's near impossible to judge how good their current products are.

Jesus no. Quite possibly the worst buses I've ever driven and been a passenger on are the Metrodeckers/Metrocities

56 plate Solo's and 2012-14 top spec Versa's are about the only things that get pass marks from compressor-failure company

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

For me it would be about the three S's I see operators get one or more of wrong, constantly

Specification:

My logic here is people that need to get the bus, will get the bus. But how are you getting anyone out of trains or cars if you are sending out trash?

So this needs to be tailored to circumstances but for me at a minimum:

High back seating
Next stop announcements
Classy and welcoming saloon specification

I'm loathed to include usb charging or WiFi but I would work on the principle of looking at what my competitors did, and make sure to do it equal, or better, where possible.

Suitability:

Main one would be route length and distance and terrain. I'd not stick 4 cylinder E200s on motorway thrashes, nor would I rush to stick heavyweights on city centre circulars.

I'd value fleet commonality, but not against everything else. If I'm batch buying from Volvo and an ADL product stacks, I'll turn if Volvo can't make it not worth it.

I'd want my driver's to have a feedback loop into management too. If we get a batch of something in and they hate them, we listen and we push hard for that to be addressed in future batches, retro fixed into the fleet as well if possible, or we don't buy any more. We communicate this loud and clear to dealers and the manufacturers.

State:

I'd buy nice and then I'd keep it nice!

I'd set up a realistic schedule for overhaul and repaints over the vehicles lifecycle. Realistically 2 repaints, and 1 full refurb over a 15 year lifecycle as a minimum. Keep it smart, presentable, consistently.

Obviously all these points would need to scale according to the size and type of operator I am - I've assumed at least a mid sized operator with a mix of services and decent financial power.

There are plenty of big companies out there with the purchasing power to get all these right and they consistently miss the mark in my opinion.

Right, enough rambling, back to my armchair to count rivets

Well Said!

On the ones at Stagecoach Bluebird the regenerative braking cuts out at around 5MPH which means when slowing down the bus will suddenly have a tendency to lurch forward, they also struggle to pick up speed above 20MPH on hills which for the sort of work they're being used on is an issue. The build quality on the Enviro400EVs here can only be described as shoddy, not even a year old and they already have bits of internal trim coming off etc.

When it comes to build quality ADL overall are quite inconsistent. 2018/19 builds seem to be the best of the bunch, additionally Falkirk built bodies tend to be less rattily than Scarborough built ones.

The interesting thing with the Wright GB Hawk is that it shares the same Daimler OM934 engine and Voith gearbox as the Streetlite, with that said the recent Streetlites also seem to be a big improvement over the older ones. The Streetdeck Electroliners and Hydroliners i've been on have also been pretty solid, especially compared to the earlier Gemini 3s which at one point (cough Lothians 18 plate batch...) seemed to come from the factory with built in rattles.

Weight products are still not up to the mark they need to be at, from a drivers point of view there are really some stupid ideas Wright has on these buses.

Every warning buzzer has its own warning buzzer then the issue with the steering wheel column that to simply adjusted you’ve to turn the engine off then ignition back on, it’s dim witted.

Streetlites are always going to be terrible buses, period.

As for the GB Hawk, it can be fitted with the 6-Cylinder Daimler unit but most operators care not for the extra smoothness or power.

Aberdeens hydrogens have the same nature right before you come to a complete stop the regen turns off, you do get used to it after some time.