Unnamed Britannia

[Oswyntail]

As those of you with grey hair will recall, one of the Britannia class of BR Standard locomotives was not given a name. Rumours around at the time suggested she was going to be "John F Kennedy". Does anyone know a) why she was not named, b) whether that rumour had any foundation or c) whether any other names were considered?
Thanks

 

[bluebottle]

I doubt that JFK was a prominent enough person in 1954 when she would have been named. I'd have thought an military name would be a better bet bearing in mind her immediately numbered neighbours were Anzac and The Territorial Army 1908-1958.

 

[Oswyntail]

Yes, the JFK rumour was about in the early 60s, filling the gap that had already been left.

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

A shot in a million here, but how many at that time were receiving military names? I only ask because the Gloucestershire Regiment were very much in the spotlight post Korea after the Imjin battle, and I wonder if they had considered naming one after that regiment. As it turned out one of BR Ws Castles No5017 was renamed 28th/61st The Gloucestershire Regiment in 1954.
http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/picture/number510.asp

As I say, Its just a guess, but the military names and the date must make it a possibility at least.

 

[bluebottle]

A shot in a million here, but how many at that time were receiving military names? I only ask because the Gloucestershire Regiment were very much in the spotlight post Korea after the Imjin battle, and I wonder if they had considered naming one after that regiment. As it turned out one of BR Ws Castles No5017 was renamed 28th/61st The Gloucestershire Regiment in 1954.
http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/picture/number510.asp

As I say, Its just a guess, but the military names and the date must make it a possibility at least.

There is a list on Wikipedia that appears to be accurate. It doesn't get vandalised which is a good sign. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BR_'Britannia'_Class_locomotives

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Looks possible then, thats a list of military names all the way back to Clive of India. I cant say that Ive ever read that it was considered for a Britannia though. On the other hand, Ive not read of a Britannia being shredded at Gloucester, which is presumably why they chose a Castle.(not only was it shedded at Gloucester, it was sometimes crewed by two former soldiers of the Regiment!)

Interesting that the last 6 were named after Scottish rivers. Makes me idly wonder if they were considering giving the name to clans until the last 15 were canceled.
Thanks for the list.

 

[Mvann]

There is a list of names that had been chosen for the clans that were canceled. Hence the reason why the new build is called hengist.

 

[9K43]

Saw 70047 on Farnley Jct shed in 1962.
Was pulled by it from LLandudno Jct to Pennmanwar in the summer of 1964 whilst on a school camping holiday on the Conway Old Road.

 

[Bevan Price]

The RCTS history of the BR Standards (Part 1) contains information about Britannia names, but I can find no reference to a possible John F Kennedy name. As for why 70047 received no name - they probably never got round to it as steam was being phased out. Initially none of 70043 to 70054 had names.

70050 - 70054 received "Firth" names when sent to Polmadie soon after they were built. 70049 only got its "Solway Firth" name after transfer to Scotland in 1960. 70043 -46/48 got their names in 1957/58. The RCTS book notes that the name on 70048 was "planned to be transferred onto a diesel loco. in due course. "

The RCTS book also mentions that patterns for Britannia nameplates were discovered for the names of three loco. engineers, but the names were never used (Sir John Aspinall, Samuel Johnson & John Ramsbottom, from the L&YR, Midland R. & LNWR, respectively)

Bevan Price

 

[caliwag]

My Ian Allen from 1955/56 indicates that 70045-49 were unnamed and that 43/44(named in the book) had not received plates. (probably awaiting naming ceremonies if they did that sort of thing then!)

70048 was named July 1958
70045 was named March 1959
70046 was named December 1959

Copped 70046 at Perth on a pigeon special...5 October 1961

Luckily that research took rather a long time!
If you are curious about odd movements, visiting locos, stock changes etc then the Keighley and Worth Valley railway has a superb "old" magazine shop at Ingrow...including Railway Observer, from the late 40s, (excellent for the above), and Trains Illustrated from the same period...all profits to the Vintage Carriage Trust.

I am not a crank, just testing my memory.:roll:

 

[geoffk]

There were several suitable names for 70047 in the "great Britons" series. Examples are Lawrence of Arabia, Cecil Rhodes and David Livingstone.

Or if none of these, how abour Robert A. Riddles?

Geoff