Unsigned Debit Cards

[Starmill]

Isn't carrying an unsigned debit card a security risk? Or is the signature not actually used for comparison purposes anymore?

Only, I observed something like this today: When the guard came to check tickets, a passenger sat near me asked the guard for a return from Manchester Airport to York (I didn't catch the price). Passenger offers card, but it is rejected almost instantly after the PIN is entered. The guard asks if the card is working, passenger replies "Oh this always happens, it never works on the train." Guard turns card over "Oh, you need to sign your card." Passenger signs card, guard swipes it and tickets printed and the passenger signs the extra coupon that comes out.

Could that not be a little bit suspicious?

 

[bb21]

The bank may reject the transaction if it turned out that the signature does not match the one on file, or there are insufficient funds, or the card was used fraudulently.

If it were a small transaction, the guard might have considered it unworthy of phone verification or spending time challenging the passenger.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Isn't carrying an unsigned debit card a security risk? Or is the signature not actually used for comparison purposes anymore?

Only, I observed something like this today: When the guard came to check tickets, a passenger sat near me asked the guard for a return from Manchester Airport to York (I didn't catch the price). Passenger offers card, but it is rejected almost instantly after the PIN is entered. The guard asks if the card is working, passenger replies "Oh this always happens, it never works on the train." Guard turns card over "Oh, you need to sign your card." Passenger signs card, guard swipes it and tickets printed and the passenger signs the extra coupon that comes out.

Could that not be a little bit suspicious?

About a year ago, the pin pads at many Northern stations gave out and spares were 'hard to come by', for a while we had to 'swipe and sign'. We were told not to accept any unsigned card without some other form of official signed ID. We were told not give them a pen to sign the card.

The number of unsigned cards was beyond belief, we even had cards being carried by people who admitted they were not the cardholder and obviously couldn't provide ID.

I think on-train staff are in a slightly different position because, at a ticket office, the passenger is not already travelling.

 

[causton]

About a year ago, the pin pads at many Northern stations gave out and spares were 'hard to come by', for a while we had to 'swipe and sign'. We were told not to accept any unsigned card without some other form of official signed ID. We were told not give them a pen to sign the card.

The number of unsigned cards was beyond belief, we even had cards being carried by people who admitted they were not the cardholder and obviously couldn't provide ID.

I think on-train staff are in a slightly different position because, at a ticket office, the passenger is not already travelling.

Had a similar situation, the amount of people who use other people's cards is amazing. Had to turn away about 5-10 customers an hour (on a busy Saturday, however) because they were not the actual cardholder. Even more had to be fetched from "just round the corner, they're looking at something else" and couldn't be bothered to pay themselves!

 

[TUC]

I guess it's because, prior to Chip and PIN, you needed to have a signed card in order to be able to use it day in, day out. Now, the need to sign for a transaction is pretty rare and so the need to sign the card doesn't occur to many people.

 

[causton]

I guess it's because, prior to Chip and PIN, you needed to have a signed card in order to be able to use it day in, day out. Now, the need to sign for a transaction is pretty rare and so the need to sign the card doesn't occur to many people.

Neither does the need to take the sticker off that says "Activate this card before use"! I used to ask the first few times I saw it "Oh, have you activated it?" "Yes" "Oh, just wondering cause the sticker's still on there" but I give up now

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I've seen a number of those stickers that have worn down so they can't be read anymore...

 

[Sleepy]

Chip & pin was launched as a great way to cut card fraud. Now everyone and his dog seems to lend their card out for whatever reason !!

 

[Abpj17]

From memory (I may need to check!), it's up to the retailer if they accept a chip card without the pin number - it becomes their liability not the banks. Meh, it was such a long time ago, not entirely sure that bit is true but if a retailer doesn't have a pin device then it is their liability http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/business/card_payments/means/shift_liability.html

And the exception to this are CHIP and signature cards for those where a pin is impractical. Retailers must accept these. http://www.payyourway.org.uk/special-focus/chip-signature-–-alternative-pin/

 

[causton]

From memory (I may need to check!), it's up to the retailer if they accept a chip card without the pin number - it becomes their liability not the banks. Meh, it was such a long time ago, not entirely sure that bit is true but if a retailer doesn't have a pin device then it is their liability http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/business/card_payments/means/shift_liability.html

And the exception to this are CHIP and signature cards for those where a pin is impractical. Retailers must accept these. http://www.payyourway.org.uk/special-focus/chip-signature-–-alternative-pin/

Been told the same before, and we get quite a few foreign chip and signature cards but never had any British ones personally. Also some weird international ones where it is both a debit and credit card and the PIN pad makes them select which one to use first, which confuses most of the other people working the till who have never seen the other buttons on the PIN pad used before!

 

[trentside]

Not wishing to generalise but the worst culprits for not signing cards are the under 30s who have always had chip and pin cards. I write this as someone in the age bracket who does always sign their card on receipt and remove the activation stickers.

If the card is unsigned - I'll ask for ID and check it matches up. I've rarely had someone not able to produce anything, but as they're already on my train I'd rather attempt to take a payment than say "pay at the other end" and watch them walk straight out the station. I always ask them to sign the card afterwards too!

 

[mikeg]

I witnessed one situation where a TPE RPO refused to accept an unsigned card. Passenger boarded at York without a ticket on an afternoon headed for Thirsk. He had no cash and his card's chip rejected. The RPO refused to accept signature verification as his card was unsigned. In the end he asked him some questions, took his details and gave him a piece of paper. I couldn't figure out whether he'd just been reported for prosecution though. Didn't say anything about being able to pay later so probably not a UFN. Anyone know what is the way of dealing with this? There had been facilities at York to purchase a ticket so he was in the wrong I suppose.

 

[Merseysider]

I witnessed one situation where a TPE RPO refused to accept an unsigned card. Passenger boarded at York without a ticket on an afternoon headed for Thirsk. He had no cash and his card's chip rejected. The RPO refused to accept signature verification as his card was unsigned. In the end he asked him some questions, took his details and gave him a piece of paper. I couldn't figure out whether he'd just been reported for prosecution though. Didn't say anything about being able to pay later so probably not a UFN. Anyone know what is the way of dealing with this? There had been facilities at York to purchase a ticket so he was in the wrong I suppose.

It really isn't hard to sign a card when you first get it.
The passenger could have no complaints if he was reported for prosecution - either a Bylaws or RRA prosecution would be successful as walking past an opportunity shows an intention to avoid paying.

If he was very unlucky that day and he'd genuinely got a new card & forgotten to sign, had problems with his chip at the station and decided to try on the train, or something similar, it's possible discretion would be shown and just an Unpaid Fare notice issued.

Then again, it's one stop, and there's every possibility he was chancing it.

 

[island]

Unsigned cards are not valid. Many cards have words to the effect of "not valid unless signed" next to the signature panel.

My merchant agreement says I am not allowed to accept unsigned cards and if presented with one, I am required to ask for government issued ID with photo and signature, ask the cardholder to sign the card, and check that the name and signature match the ID and the photo matches the person presenting the card. If this is all OK, I can accept the card.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Merchant guide for those using HSBC/Global Payments (i.e. the rail industry) is that unsigned cards should be called in as a "Code 10".

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine how long you'd spend on the phone each day if you actually did so.

 

[Edmondson]

Merchant guide for those using HSBC/Global Payments (i.e. the rail industry) is that unsigned cards should be called in as a "Code 10".

Do you still get a £50 reward if you confiscate a card on the orders of the card company as a result of a Code 10 call?

 

[Qwerty133]

Merchant guide for those using HSBC/Global Payments (i.e. the rail industry) is that unsigned cards should be called in as a "Code 10".

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine how long you'd spend on the phone each day if you actually did so.

I hope the staff in that line have a much better understanding of English than 'Mary' and 'Derrick' on the HSBC customer service line...

 

[reb0118]

.........unsigned cards should be called in as a "Code 10".

How does one do this via the automated service? Off the top of my head input "10" when it asks for the transaction type?

 

[headshot119]

How does one do this via the automated service? Off the top of my head input "10" when it asks for the transaction type?

Say "Code 10" or type 10 on the keypad.

 

[CyrusWuff]

How does one do this via the automated service? Off the top of my head input "10" when it asks for the transaction type?

It gives you the option after you've entered the card number.

 

[trentside]

Do you still get a £50 reward if you confiscate a card on the orders of the card company as a result of a Code 10 call?

I believe so, but I've never had cause to do it.

 

[ess]

Me and the missus both have the same Santander credit card which gives 3% cash back on rail travel. We have two cards on both accounts. The call to activate sticker remains on one account to be obvious which one is which


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[richw]

After reading this thread, I've just realised my debit card isn't signed

I have just received a new debit card from my bank and it now has the contactless system. If Chip and Pin was to reduce fraud the contactless system will surely increase the fraud as I enter no verification when using it!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

After reading this thread, I've just realised my debit card isn't signed

I have just received a new debit card from my bank and it now has the contactless system. If Chip and Pin was to reduce fraud the contactless system will surely increase the fraud as I enter no verification when using it!

It is limited to a smaller spend, so it is harder to abuse than you might initially think, but secure it is not.

 

[rdeez]

It is limited to a smaller spend, so it is harder to abuse than you might initially think, but secure it is not.

Furthermore every now and then a 'security check' takes place whereby on trying to use contactless you are instead presented with the message "Bank security check: Use pin pad" and have to use your pin instead.

This may be random, or after X transactions or X value on contactless, I don't know.

 

[richw]

Furthermore every now and then a 'security check' takes place whereby on trying to use contactless you are instead presented with the message "Bank security check: Use pin pad" and have to use your pin instead.

This may be random, or after X transactions or X value on contactless, I don't know.

It's after 10 transactions according to the little leaflet, so 9 transactions up to £20 before it needs a pin. Admittedly in Cornwall the only place I've found that has contact less is McDonald's, so £180 worth of McDonald's card fraud is even harder than first thought in Cornwall at least!

 

[fowler9]

Just out of interest why reject a card because it isn't signed in an age of contact less payment?

 

[Deerfold]

Furthermore every now and then a 'security check' takes place whereby on trying to use contactless you are instead presented with the message "Bank security check: Use pin pad" and have to use your pin instead.

This may be random, or after X transactions or X value on contactless, I don't know.

It can be after X transactions or after £Y value (with it being possible to have both restrictions). It is reset when you perform a transaction that needs a PIN - a normal payment or withdrawing money from an ATM.

Before I changed current accounts and so no longer have a contactless card I only found one of my regular shops that took contactless - the first payment I made there was for £19.99. I was never asked for a PIN.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The place where a signature used to be signed on the back of my new HSBC Visa Debit card has a silver-coloured shiny plasticised coating that defies all attempts to write a signature upon it.

Has anyone else come across this particular problem ?

 

[Clip]

My signature strip is nearly worn off now anyway so pretty useless to store my signature on.