Warrington Chapelford - £9m New Station plan

[185]

Apols if somewhere this has already been posted.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-22714479

Plans for new £9m railway station in Warrington.

Proposals to build a £9m railway station in West Warrington are being put forward by the borough council.

The council said a new station near Chapelford is needed to cope with an increase in passenger numbers.

New housing developments and industrial estates in the area have increased the demand for public transport, the council said.

Consultations will be held throughout June to seek the public's views on the proposal.

Plans for the station include parking for about 350 cars, cycle lockers, a taxi rank and new bus stops.

Councillor Linda Dirir, executive board member for highways, transportation and climate change, said: "At the moment, more than 70% of work-related trips in Warrington are made by car.

"We need to cut congestion and pollution and improve people's choices when it comes to local transport."

The council hopes to open the new station before the end of 2016.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Apols if somewhere this has already been posted.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-22714479

I'm struggling to locate Chapelford on the map.
It seems to be linked to the Burtonwood airbase redevelopment, which is well north of the CLC route through Great Sankey (though it was once rail-served for goods).
A new station site in the area would seem to duplicate the current Sankey station.
I'm sure Network Rail and Northern would love to have yet another local stop on the CLC route (not).
Didn't this station fail to get approval in the current New Station Fund round?

 

[edwin_m]

I believe it is here:

http://binged.it/18AY7x2

The semi-derelict overbridge becomes the access between the platforms. Road access and parking are proposed to be on the north side with a secondary access to the south.

It did indeed miss out on the New Station Fund.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm struggling to locate Chapelford on the map.
It seems to be linked to the Burtonwood airbase redevelopment, which is well north of the CLC route through Great Sankey (though it was once rail-served for goods).
A new station site in the area would seem to duplicate the current Sankey station.
I'm sure Network Rail and Northern would love to have yet another local stop on the CLC route (not).
Didn't this station fail to get approval in the current New Station Fund round?

I think the location is close to where Sunset Boulevard meets the rail line.

I seem to recall Warrington Borough council having aspirations for regional services to call at a new station in lieu of Birchwood. I don't know if this is the same proposed station though.

Trafford council also have plans for a new Metrolink/heavy rail interchange at White City: http://www.trafford.gov.uk/content/udp/written/cpt9.asp

 

[185]

It's basically about 400m beyond the (Liverpool) west end of the viaduct over Sankey Valley Park.

Chapelford is a fairly stupid name for it, an accurate railway one would be Great Sankey - thats what's on road learning maps / sectional appendices. My initial thoughts were it would be for Warrington Gen Hospital, but it's the wrong side of the viaduct.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I believe it is here:
http://binged.it/18AY7x2
The semi-derelict overbridge becomes the access between the platforms. Road access and parking are proposed to be on the north side with a secondary access to the south.
It did indeed miss out on the New Station Fund.

I make this location 820 metres east of Sankey station.
What's the point of having two stations so close together?
It would surely only work if Sankey closed.
And the comparison with Birchwood stretches the imagination.
Birchwood is full of established hi-tech industry and call centres, plus the prison at Risley.
Chapelford is just residential at the moment, though there must be development potential on the Burtonwood site.

 

[Gareth]

It is between Widnes and Sankey, as shown on this 2006 Merseytravel wishlist map.

Good news for the area if this happens. I'd still like to see the Merseyrail Northern Line extended to Warrington Central some day.

 

[edwin_m]

I seem to recall Warrington Borough council having aspirations for regional services to call at a new station in lieu of Birchwood. I don't know if this is the same proposed station though.

Certainly doesn't replace Birchwood, as it is on the other side of Warrington.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is between Widnes and Sankey, as shown on this 2006 Merseytravel wishlist map.

Good news for the area if this happens. I'd still like to see the Merseyrail Northern Line extended to Warrington Central some day.

I think that map is wrong.

 

[northwichcat]

Certainly doesn't replace Birchwood, as it is on the other side of Warrington.

The express trains can only call at a certain number of stations and Warrington borough council certainly gave the impression they wanted a new station to be served by TPE services instead of Birchwood. Although, if they can get away I imagine they actually want Widnes to be dropped instead.

 

[Gareth]

Actually, looking at a map, it doesn't make sense, seen as the Chapelford area seems to be east of Sankey station. I suppose it depends where 'Omega' is, seen as it's 'for Omega' on that Merseytravel map.

 

[edwin_m]

According to Wikipedia, Omega is SW of M62 J8 and probably slightly closer to Sankey than the Chapelford site. It's over a mile from either so would need a bus connection.

 

[northwichcat]

It's over a mile from either so would need a bus connection.

Somehow I managed to catch the train on the first bank holiday in May despite living a mile from the nearest station and no local bus services operating, using the things on the end of my legs to get to the station. Also given the number of people using the train that day I imagine a lot of other people did the same.

 

[edwin_m]

Somehow I managed to catch the train on the first bank holiday in May despite living a mile from the nearest station and no local bus services operating, using the things on the end of my legs to get to the station. Also given the number of people using the train that day I imagine a lot of other people did the same.

Fair point. But looking at Bing birds eye view it doesn't strike me as the sort of place many people would walk to. The layout seems very car-orientated with pedestrian/cyclist provision a bit of an afterthought. The walking route follows the very indirect road access and at one point just stops in the middle of nowhere! Having said that a bus connection would probably struggle to wash its face too.

 

[WatcherZero]

Well looking for details from the press release the BBC article didnt include.
Two relocated bus stops on Sycamore Lane
Will continue to lobby for improvements to Sankey-for-Penketh
Consultation to start on 3rd June with 10,000 leaflets distributed within walking distance and public exhibits to talk to staff.

Mmm site is literally 400m from Sankey station, its almost as close as Deansgate and Oxford Road!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Didn't this station fail to get approval in the current New Station Fund round?

What other source of finance do the Borough Council feel will be made available now that finance source that you name has been seen to be unsuccessful ?

 

[northwichcat]

Didn't this station fail to get approval in the current New Station Fund round?

One of the criteria for that scheme was:

The proposal should describe the train service pattern assumed within the business case and state clearly that this has Train Operator support. Written confirmation of this should be included. Train Operator support should make it clear that a service can call at the New Station without any additional service subsidy being required and that passengers can be accommodated on services which call.

Didn't that effectively rule out any lines with peak time overcrowding, where the operator receives a subsidy from DfT for the operation of the franchise?

 

[Darren R]

I'm sure Network Rail and Northern would love to have yet another local stop on the CLC route (not).

Quite. The CLC needs another station like a fish needs an umbrella. It barely works with the current stops, although I suppose this will ease after some services are diverted via Chat Moss post electrification.

Does Network Rail have any say in the matter? If one of the highly paid professionals who do such a good job at DaFT decides this is a good idea, do NR or the TOC have any power to intervene?

 

[185]

The only sensible idea I can see if they are so keen to have the station at the new location is to shut Sankey Station and rebuild it at the new desired (well, by the council) location, which I read as being only 850m away.

 

[Holly]

The express trains can only call at a certain number of stations and Warrington borough council certainly gave the impression they wanted a new station to be served by TPE services instead of Birchwood. Although, if they can get away I imagine they actually want Widnes to be dropped instead.

More stations on the line makes the business case for electrification stronger.
And electrification is what the line needs most.

 

[Bevan Price]

Some photos near the proposed site taken earlier this year

http://www.bevanprice.me.uk/Recent_16Jan2013.html

Scroll down towards bottom of page, starting at caption "Warrington, Unnamed footbridge", which is what is described above as disused overbridge. Personally, I think it is too close to Sankey, and it might be better if there was space to build a large park & ride car park near Sankey station. (Quite apart from the problem of finding a path for the current level of fast & slow trains if you add another stop.)

 

[northwichcat]

And electrification is what the line needs most.

I think it needs to be done in conjunction with Hazel Grove-Sheffield to put a strong case forward.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The only sensible idea I can see if they are so keen to have the station at the new location is to shut Sankey Station and rebuild it at the new desired (well, by the council) location, which I read as being only 850m away.

Would the fact that Sankey for Penketh railway station has been given Class II listed status militate against the demolition of this station ?

 

[northwichcat]

Would the fact that Sankey for Penketh railway station has been given Class II listed status militate against the demolition of this station ?

Closing a station doesn't mean the station buildings have to be demolished. In many places station buildings have been converted to offices. It would just need any doors that open directly on to the platform to be blocked off and possibly a new one added in as an alternative exit to comply with H&S.

 

[mwmbwls]

I think it needs to be done in conjunction with Hazel Grove-Sheffield to put a strong case forward.

Agreed but it would have to slot in the rolling programme, that we do not have, behind the North Trans-Pennine (possibly including Hull and Tees-side extensions) and the Midland Main Line. In addition to Liverpool- Manchester and Hazel Grove-Sheffield electrified links from Doncaster-Cleethorpes, Nottingham - Grantham, Peterborough-Ely-Norwich would need to be infilled.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Closing a station doesn't mean the station buildings have to be demolished. In many places station buildings have been converted to offices. It would just need any doors that open directly on to the platform to be blocked off and possibly a new one added in as an alternative exit to comply with H&S.

Would not the Grade II listing entail any changes to such a edifice to be made subject to discussion ? May I cite the recent matter of the proposed changes to railway usage at the Grade II listed railway station at Shrewsbury that had to be deeply gone into and this did not involve a change of railway usage let alone a completely different non-railway usage.

 

[WatcherZero]

English Heritage's description may help you.

Listing is not a preservation order, preventing change. Listing is an identification stage where buildings are marked and celebrated as having exceptional architectural or historic special interest, before any planning stage which may decide a building's future.

Listing does not freeze a building in time, it simply means that listed building consent must be applied for in order to make any changes to that building which might affect its special interest. Listed buildings can be altered, extended and sometimes even demolished within government planning guidance. The local authority uses listed building consent to make decisions that balance the site's historic significance against other issues such as its function, condition or viability

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

English Heritage's description may help you.

For this, I am indeed grateful. Why did there seem to be such an upswell of feeling when the changes were proposed at Shrewsbury station ?

Reverting back to the railway station of Sankey for Penketh, have any formal proposals ever been put forward to make any changes to its current location in recent times ?

 

[edwin_m]

There is no current proposal to electrify Trafford to Allerton, probably because of the low probability of the long-distance services becoming electric. The locals don't go further than Oxford Road and Lime Street so electrifying it doesn't eliminate much diesel running under the wires.

There has been discussion of extending Merseyrail from Hunts Cross to Warrington Central. Hopefully if this happens it will be AC with dual voltage units, since this would be a stepping stone to AC electrification through to Trafford.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There is no current proposal to electrify Trafford to Allerton, probably because of the low probability of the long-distance services becoming electric. The locals don't go further than Oxford Road and Lime Street so electrifying it doesn't eliminate much diesel running under the wires.

There has been discussion of extending Merseyrail from Hunts Cross to Warrington Central. Hopefully if this happens it will be AC with dual voltage units, since this would be a stepping stone to AC electrification through to Trafford.

If electrification was pursued, being mindful of the rail-served container base at Trafford Park, would there be any use of the CLC line to offer any possible usage of westward-bound container traffic from there in the Liverpool direction ?

 

[edwin_m]

If electrification was pursued, being mindful of the rail-served container base at Trafford Park, would there be any use of the CLC line to offer any possible usage of westward-bound container traffic from there in the Liverpool direction ?

I think it's very unlikely that there would be a container flow between Manchester and Liverpool, as the distance is much too short to justify loading a container onto a train. Any market there might be is likely to be met by Peel barging containers up the canal to Irlam.

The CLC route has very little capacity to carry any extra traffic, due to the need for both fast and slow passenger services and the lack of overtaking loops. Also there are no connections to any onward route until the Liverpool area and even then they would require a reversal. For example any train going westward from Trafford Park and aiming for WCML southwards would have to run round in the Edge Hill area and backtrack via either Runcorn or Rainhill.