Waterloo - Kings Cross - FASTEST connection

[miklcct]

Sorry if this has been asked before but I can't see a thread about this.

In short, I have booked on a 17:19 connection into Waterloo leaving 18:30 Kings Cross to York on Saturday, however due to disruption at Salisbury until next week my arrival into Waterloo will be delayed. What's the FASTEST way (for an able-bodied person) in order to make the connection in the shortest time using any combination of tube and bus, running if necessary, or hiring a Santander cycle? (as I have split tickets in the 18:30 leg, there is no absolute right for it to be accepted onto the following 19:00 non-stop service, therefore I'd like to make the original connection if possible)

 

[Class800]

In order to advise in detail, we need to know your full itinerary. Where is the origin? Where are the tickets split? From west of Salisbury depending exactly where it is, GWR ticket acceptance into Paddington via either Westbury or Exeter St Davids is often quicker than the replacement bus route to Andover. So, it may not be a Waterloo to Kings Cross transfer. From Waterloo to Kings Cross, personally if you are quick on your feet, you could do northern line to Euston then dash down the Euston road to Kings Cross. For a tube only routing, it would likely be northern line to Warren street, changing for the Victoria line to Kings Cross. Regarding acceptance on next service, strictly it will acceptance on next train that calls at your split ticket point - but sometimes in disruption ticket offices will offer an endorsement stamp or letter print out to use the fast service, discretionary of course.

 

[davews]

I always do Bakerloo to Oxford Circus then Victoria, 15-20 minutes, not sure Northern via Warren St would be any quicker. Make sure you come out of the old entrance at KX and don't get stuck in the endless new tunnel. Doubt you would do that any quicker by any other way.

 

[Class800]

Probably not much in it, though the Bakerloo line route is slightly longer in distance as it tracks further west to Oxford Circus then heading north east again to Kings Cross.

 

[Ianno87]

Definitely Bakerloo/Victoria via Oxford Circus. Exit via the rear of the train at King's Cross.

Regardless, others may be able to advise better, but given the disruption I'd have thought you'd be able to depart Salisbury earlier than planned (or nobody will care if you do).

 

[miklcct]

In order to advise in detail, we need to know your full itinerary. Where is the origin? Where are the tickets split? From west of Salisbury depending exactly where it is, GWR ticket acceptance into Paddington via either Westbury or Exeter St Davids is often quicker than the replacement bus route to Andover. So, it may not be a Waterloo to Kings Cross transfer. From Waterloo to Kings Cross, personally if you are quick on your feet, you could do northern line to Euston then dash down the Euston road to Kings Cross. For a tube only routing, it would likely be northern line to Warren street, changing for the Victoria line to Kings Cross. Regarding acceptance on next service, strictly it will acceptance on next train that calls at your split ticket point - but sometimes in disruption ticket offices will offer an endorsement stamp or letter print out to use the fast service, discretionary of course.

My original itinerary was 15:42 Salisbury - 16:30 Basingstoke - 18:30 King's Cross.

Now the whole of Salisbury to Basingstoke has been replaced with a bus, and the train is removed from the timetable so I can no longer claim delay repay if things run to the amended timetable.

So there will only be two sensible options with me:
1. Try to depart one hour earlier for the 14:40 replacement bus following my original booked itinerary.
2. If I can't make it, try to get my tickets endorsed on GWR for the 15:47 departure to Westbury, but there is an obvious risk that the LNER doesn't let me get on the 19:00 non-stop from Kings Cross, in such case I'll need to pay nearly £80 out of pocket to buy a walk up and can only refund my Peterborough - Newark - York advances citing disruption earlier in the trip and ticket acceptance refused preventing me to complete my journey.

 

[yorkie]

My original itinerary was 15:42 Salisbury - 16:30 Basingstoke - 18:30 King's Cross.

Now the whole of Salisbury to Basingstoke has been replaced with a bus, and the train is removed from the timetable so I can no longer claim delay repay if things run to the amended timetable.

If you already have your tickets and itinerary, you can claim delay repay if you arrive into York later than the originally booked time (by a qualifying length of delay, as stipulated by the applicable Delay Repay scheme)

So there will only be two sensible options with me:
1. Try to depart one hour earlier for the 14:40 replacement bus following my original booked itinerary.

That would be fine; you would minimise your chances of delay by doing this.

2. If I can't make it, try to get my tickets endorsed on GWR for the 15:47 departure to Westbury, but there is an obvious risk that the LNER doesn't let me get on the 19:00 non-stop from Kings Cross, in such case I'll need to pay nearly £80 out of pocket to buy a walk up and can only refund my Peterborough - Newark - York advances citing disruption earlier in the trip and ticket acceptance refused preventing me to complete my journey.

You are entitled to take the first available SWR service from Salisbury to London; if there is no service available around the originally booked departure time I would expect ticket acceptance to be in place; if formal ticket acceptance is not in place, then seek staff advice to enquire about alternative routeings. I would follow staff advice to use your existing tickets (if applicable) and would not pay any extra. Likewise, at King's Cross, if staff insist you take the 1930 instead of the 1900 (unlikely) I would ask them to write this down as evidence (they may refuse but if so that doesn't change anything) and this would result in an even bigger Delay Repay claim.

Once you have the ticket, a contract is formed at that point and it remains valid; it is up to the rail industry to supply you with a solution.

The contract is based on the timetable at the time of purchase.

 

[Class800]

You won't need to ask re the 15.47 to Westbury, as the advice states 'GWR via any reasonable route', the same a connection to Paddington and London Underground to Kings Cross.

I suggest you ask Kings Cross if they will endorse for non-stop, but otherwise there's a 19.30 Newcastle service calling at both Newark and York.

SWR can be tricky with temporary timetables, regardless of when many forum members say that what they do isn't actually permitted, i.e. not paying delay repay on advance tickets on the itinerary as sold. But instead of going over that ground again, I do notice there is still in timetable a train 15.40 to Andover for connecting train to Waterloo arriving 17.49 shown as cancelled, along with the bus to Basingstoke one - you could almost certainly claim versus what it on the journey planner now with that cancelled Andover train

@yorkie has just posted - while I was writing. He is one of our top experts, so follow what he says

 

[miklcct]

If you already have your tickets and itinerary, you can claim delay repay if you arrive into York later than the originally booked time (by a qualifying length of delay, as stipulated by the applicable Delay Repay scheme)



That would be fine; you would minimise your chances of delay by doing this.


You are entitled to take the first available SWR service from Salisbury to London; if there is no service available around the originally booked departure time I would expect ticket acceptance to be in place; if formal ticket acceptance is not in place, then seek staff advice to enquire about alternative routeings. I would follow staff advice to use your existing tickets (if applicable) and would not pay any extra. Likewise, at King's Cross, if staff insist you take the 1930 instead of the 1900 (unlikely) I would ask them to write this down as evidence (they may refuse but if so that doesn't change anything) and this would result in an even bigger Delay Repay claim.

Once you have the ticket, a contract is formed at that point and it remains valid; it is up to the rail industry to supply you with a solution.

If you do not already have your tickets, then that is a different matter; the contract is based on the timetable at the time of purchase.

Thank you for your prompt reply. My tickets were bought before the train crash on TrainSplit but as two different journeys on one booking references. The reason was because I'm departing from Salisbury and returning to Bournemouth, so a natural choice is to manually split at Basingstoke. I have already saved itineraries generated from National Rail Enquiries before the train was removed from the timetable, showing an identical itinerary to what I have booked at Trainsplit beforehand onto my phone as well.

 

[miklcct]

Update: my race went well that I could leave Salisbury an hour earlier. (I met my old friends from HK the first time in the UK as well) And SWR ran an extra bus calling at Andover only to Basingstoke. As a result I still had time to have a lunch there before getting on my booked service to Waterloo.

Thanks again for everyone's reply and will take the Bakerloo / Victoria after arriving London.

 

[30907]

Update: my race went well that I could leave Salisbury an hour earlier. (I met my old friends from HK the first time in the UK as well) And SWR ran an extra bus calling at Andover only to Basingstoke. As a result I still had time to have a lunch there before getting on my booked service to Waterloo.

Thanks again for everyone's reply and will take the Bakerloo / Victoria after arriving London.

Glad it went well.

 

[miklcct]

Glad it went well.

For reference here's my timing today. As I was on time I made the connection at a leisurely pace (not walking as fast as commuting to/from work).

17:21 SWR train door opened, got off at coach 1
17:26 got on Bakerloo train at the front carriage
17:32 got off at Oxford Circus
17:33 got on Victoria train, still at front carriage
17:37 got off at King's Cross St Prancas
17:42 arrived National Rail Station concourse

Still had enough time to have a dinner in the station before the 18:30 train. This was my first time I made a through journey through London.

Given the timing above, if I'm not transferring into an advance ticket, I'll attempt to make connections between these 2 stations with a minimum of 30 minutes between arrival and departure, knowing that delay repay won't be applicable to me in such situations.

 

[Hadders]

For future reference aim for the very rear set of doors in the rear carriage of the Victoria Line train from Oxford Circus to Kings Cross. This is the optimum point for a speedy exit via the Euston Road exit which, despite what the the signs indicate, is the fastest way to Kings Cross mainline station.

 

[Class800]

I found this thread interesting - it seems surprising to me that the Bakerloo and Victoria is quicker than the Northern line and Victoria (Warren St) when the latter has a more direct line of route - but it does somehow seem to be faster, if only marginally

 

[Wolfie]

I always do Bakerloo to Oxford Circus then Victoria, 15-20 minutes, not sure Northern via Warren St would be any quicker. Make sure you come out of the old entrance at KX and don't get stuck in the endless new tunnel. Doubt you would do that any quicker by any other way.

Absolutely agree. The Vic is one of the fastest tube lines.

 

[Wolfie]

For future reference aim for the very rear set of doors in the rear carriage of the Victoria Line train from Oxford Circus to Kings Cross. This is the optimum point for a speedy exit via the Euston Road exit which, despite what the the signs indicate, is the fastest way to Kings Cross mainline station.

Yup and use the rear passage to change at Oxford Circus.

 

[Wolfie]

I found this thread interesting - it seems surprising to me that the Bakerloo and Victoria is quicker than the Northern line and Victoria (Warren St) when the latter has a more direct line of route - but it does somehow seem to be faster, if only marginally

The change at Oxford Circus is cross-platform. That certainly isn't so at Warren Street (or indeed Euston).

 

[JonathanH]

I found this thread interesting - it seems surprising to me that the Bakerloo and Victoria is quicker than the Northern line and Victoria (Warren St) when the latter has a more direct line of route - but it does somehow seem to be faster, if only marginally

Changing at Warren Street involves escalators to move between the Victoria and Northern lines (as does Euston between the Charing Cross branch and the Victoria line).

 

[Hadders]

I found this thread interesting - it seems surprising to me that the Bakerloo and Victoria is quicker than the Northern line and Victoria (Warren St) when the latter has a more direct line of route - but it does somehow seem to be faster, if only marginally

Definitely faster via Bakerloo and Victoria Lines:

- The Victoria Line runs every 100 seconds for much of the day
- Victoria is faster than the other tube lines
- The interchange at Oxford Circus is cross platform and doesn't involve escalators or steps
- If in the correct position the exit from the Victoria Line at Kings Cross is simple and quick

Depending on the exact journey and if the train into Waterloo calls at Vauxhall and/or the train from Kings Cross calls at Finsbury Park then it is faster to do:

Vauxhall to Finsbury Park - Victoria Line throughout, possible in 20 minutes if you're very fleet of foot!
Vauxhall to Kings Cross - Victoria Line throughout
Waterloo to Finsbury Park - Bakerloo change at Oxford Circus to the Victoria Line

 

[westv]

Back in 2018 I travelled almost every Friday for 6 months Waterloo to Kings X and would agree with the Bakerloo - Vic line route.

 

[Wolfie]

Definitely faster via Bakerloo and Victoria Lines:

- The Victoria Line runs every 100 seconds for much of the day
- Victoria is faster than the other tube lines
- The interchange at Oxford Circus is cross platform and doesn't involve escalators or steps
- If in the correct position the exit from the Victoria Line at Kings Cross is simple and quick

Depending on the exact journey and if the train into Waterloo calls at Vauxhall and/or the train from Kings Cross calls at Finsbury Park then it is faster to do:

Vauxhall to Finsbury Park - Victoria Line throughout, possible in 20 minutes if you're very fleet of foot!
Vauxhall to Kings Cross - Victoria Line throughout
Waterloo to Finsbury Park - Bakerloo change at Oxford Circus to the Victoria Line

Nailed it. Possibly even worth changing at Clapham Junction to a Vauxhall service if the train that you're on doesn't stop there.
Back of the SWR train, down the stairs and straight into the tube. Head for the back of the train if going to King's Cross.

 

[Hadders]

Northbound Victoria Line to Finsbury Park - carriage 4, door 1 left hand side, then a dash up the spiral stair case. Done it more times than I care to remember

 

[Class800]

I've learnt something potentially quite useful for my cross London transfers, thanks very much.

 

[miklcct]

Nailed it. Possibly even worth changing at Clapham Junction to a Vauxhall service if the train that you're on doesn't stop there.
Back of the SWR train, down the stairs and straight into the tube. Head for the back of the train if going to King's Cross.

Google Maps suggests to change onto a Southern service to London Victoria at Clapham Junction than take the Victoria line there. Is it a good idea?

 

[Wolfie]

Google Maps suggests to change onto a Southern service to London Victoria at Clapham Junction than take the Victoria line there. Is it a good idea?

It's not a bad idea, albeit that l prefer to get the Vic at Vauxhall. The benefit of changing at Vauxhall is that Victoria can get very busy. The tube trains are quieter a couple of stops earlier. Victoria tube still has a pain in the butt one-way system in place too.

 

[Hadders]

Google Maps suggests to change onto a Southern service to London Victoria at Clapham Junction than take the Victoria line there. Is it a good idea?

It's a longer walk at Victoria than at Vauxhall, but more trains go to Victoria than Vauxhall. So if a train to Vauxhall is due imminently then Vauxhall will be best.