Watford-Edinburgh… valid via Glasgow then Carstairs?

[_csd]

Hello,

Just wanted to check if a Watford Junction to Edinburgh single, route “Not via London” is valid to travel to Glasgow Central then pick up an Edinburgh service that goes via Carstairs.

I know it’s valid via Glasgow though I’ve only been able to get itineraries that send me via Shotts or Queen Street.

Any advice on this greatly appreciated as always.

Thank you.

 

[Watershed]

It's not valid to double back between Carstairs and Glasgow, if that is what you are asking. You can travel to Glasgow via Lockerbie and Carstairs, and then continue to Edinburgh via Falkirk, Bathgate or Shotts.

Alternatively, you could get to Glasgow via Dumfries to avoid passing through Carstairs on the way up, and then continue to Edinburgh via Carstairs. This would be permitted under the Routeing Guide, using map combination LM+EG. You'd have to change at Carlisle though, and it would be much slower overall.

Of course, in many cases it wouldn't be possible for a guard/barrier line to know whether you have travelled via Lockerbie or via Dumfries, so in practical terms you might 'get away' with the double-back. But strictly speaking it wouldn't be permitted and you could be required to pay an excess fare (though it's unclear how this would be calculated).

 

[_csd]

It's not valid to double back between Carstairs and Glasgow, if that is what you are asking. You can travel to Glasgow via Lockerbie and Carstairs, and then continue to Edinburgh via Falkirk, Bathgate or Shotts.

Alternatively, you could get to Glasgow via Dumfries to avoid passing through Carstairs on the way up, and then continue to Edinburgh via Carstairs. This would be permitted under the Routeing Guide, using map combination LM+EG. You'd have to change at Carlisle though, and it would be much slower overall.

Of course, in many cases it wouldn't be possible for a guard/barrier line to know whether you have travelled via Lockerbie or via Dumfries, so in practical terms you might 'get away' with the double-back. But strictly speaking it wouldn't be permitted and you could be required to pay an excess fare (though it's unclear how this would be calculated).

Thank you for your reply, and yes that is indeed what I wanted to do; double back at Glasgow.

Would be interesting to see what the excess would be but I think I’ll play it safe and just get separate tickets.

And thanks for letting me know about via Dumfries, unfortunately timings are a bit tight so I don’t think I could get away with the time penalty.

 

[enginedin]

@_csd what's your rationale for wanting to avoid Queen Street?

As a totally different alternative, you can do Watford -> [Avantii] -> Milton Keynes -> [Avanti] -> Manchester -> [Transpennine] -> Edinburgh

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Would an additional Anytime Day Single from Glasgow Cen/QST to Kirknewton allow travel, with Scotrail, between Glasgow Central and Edinburgh (via Carstairs) in conjunction with the other ticket already? (Slightly cheaper if the OP changes at Motherwell).

 

[_csd]

@_csd what's your rationale for wanting to avoid Queen Street?

As a totally different alternative, you can do Watford -> [Avantii] -> Milton Keynes -> [Avanti] -> Manchester -> [Transpennine] -> Edinburgh

It’s a combination of not really liking the transfer to Queen Street, plus what I wanted to do, is take a 320 (or maybe a 318) to Carluke then pick up an Edinburgh service.

I miss the 321’s down here and the 320’s are the closest equivalent!

 

[BlueLeanie]

Of course, in many cases it wouldn't be possible for a guard/barrier line to know whether you have travelled via Lockerbie or via Dumfries, so in practical terms you might 'get away' with the double-back. But strictly speaking it wouldn't be permitted and you could be required to pay an excess fare (though it's unclear how this would be calculated).

I'm curious, what would be your best estimate at the excess?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I'm curious, what would be your best estimate at the excess?

I think it's possibly £12.20 if, as per my post above, an extra ticket is required to validly get from Glasgow Central to Kirknewton via Carstairs. (At Kirknewton is where the line via Shotts joins up).

 

[Farigiraf]

plus what I wanted to do, is take a 320 (or maybe a 318) to Carluke then pick up an Edinburgh service.

Beware that fairly often the Lanark service is operated by a 385, which also works the service to Edinburgh via Carstairs. There have also been 380s working that route in the past, though I'm not sure if there still are.

 

[_csd]

Beware that fairly often the Lanark service is operated by a 385, which also works the service to Edinburgh via Carstairs. There have also been 380s working that route in the past, though I'm not sure if there still are.

Thank you, yes I have seen that. The one I’ve been looking at getting, 2B70 (10:50 from GLC) seems to reliably be a 320/318 thankfully.

 

[Watershed]

I think it's possibly £12.20 if, as per my post above, an extra ticket is required to validly get from Glasgow Central to Kirknewton via Carstairs. (At Kirknewton is where the line via Shotts joins up).

Yes, that would seem a reasonable calculation of the excess - in reality you'd just be best off buying that beforehand. As mentioned, there isn't a clear-cut method for calculating excess fares when travelling via a non-permitted route so it does come down to individual members of staff to a certain extent.